Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 11
03-05-2010, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wetworth View Post
There is no honor on the Fed forums.
There is no honor in whining you are right. Therefore 95% of KDF are honorless dogs.
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# 12
03-05-2010, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmaker01 View Post
Dishonor is showing no willingness to fight, or worse, utter incompetence.

A good example of real, historical "honor" for warriors are the Samurai of Feudal Japan. Everybody seems to have this ideal that the Samurai will always seek to fight a "fair fight" in your face. But if you know anything about Samurai, they were NOT like that during alot of their fighting history. Ambushes, deceptions, shifting alliances, betrayals, etc. Only during the peaceful period after the Warring States era and the advent of the Tokugawa Shogunate did you really start seeing these stupid ideals of Samurai fighting on equal terms and with no deception or dirty tricks. But in the days when they really fought, almost anything went. What mattered the most was victory.
Relating Klingon to Samurai is pretty far off. I'm sure I don't have to go through all this, but the Samurai did not make up an entire culture or society, they coexisted along with all the other Japanese people. If you are going to relate the Klingon to anything it would most likely be the ancient Greek Spartan society. Klingon in the various shows have always said 'Death before dishonor.' The 'type of honor' you are referring to about the Samurai is hardly the same as the Klingon. Klingon fight to show dominance, they do not use deception or trickery to gain political power. They have always had the mindset of you are going to die or I am, and that running is not an option.

My post is pretty irrelevant to the game, however Klingon ships having battle cloaking abilities does go against their culture.
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# 13
03-05-2010, 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackheart_SS View Post
As a race of honor bound warriors that uses cloak to run away seems to be a cowardly thing...not sure... it just seems kinda funny to me...maybe "it is more honorable to survive a fight than to go down fighting" or to ambush your prey without them knowing you're there is very honorable...:p now only if I can get my cloaking to work faster so I don't blow up while cloaking.... Klingon's=Contradiction in the philosophy of honor.
This is where you are VERY wrong.

Kahless has a story that tells this tale , I forget where its from a book? one of the shows? not sure but here is the story.

A huge storm was coming which is nothing big on Qo'nos but this storm was stronger than most , kahless was a teen at the time I think he seen this klingon with his sword standing out in the wind , he told the klingon what are you doing come in from the strom. the man said "I am sick of these stroms im going teach them to respect me"kahless went inside with the others , the next day the klingon was dead outside.........a kahless spoke these mighty words.

"Stroms do not respect a fool"

Now I might have got some of this wrong because I just read it from in game text from one of the lore keepers outside of Qo'nos, but I think the story speaks for itself , die with honor but not as a fool , only a fool would not run from 10 fedration ships.
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# 14
03-05-2010, 10:26 PM
Long ago, a storm was heading for the city of Quin'lat. Everyone took protection within the walls except one man who remained outside. Kahless went to him and asked what he was doing. "I am not afraid," the man said. "I will not hide my face behind stone and mortar. I will stand before the wind and make it respect me." Kahless honored his choice and went back inside. The next day, the storm came, and the man was killed, as the wind does not respect a fool. (TNG: "Rightful Heir")

Here is the real story guess it was from TNG , you see the point kahless is making tho right?
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# 15
03-05-2010, 10:42 PM
and if the game worked as it should when the kilingons decloak the feds should have several seconds of highly vulnerable time, as they call red alerts to raise shields and charge weapons. as it stands currently they run around with shields up and weapons charged 24/7, which in trek lore would have them burning those systems out keeping htem running at full constantly even outside of combat.

but then this game has never been even remotely accurate to star trek combat wise, as it stands cloaking is more of a liability then a good thing, people not coming out of cloak to help win a fight can cost the battle.
people cloak and afk to mooch

all in all, too many people cry about something they dont even understand, and its just irritating.
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# 16 um NO
03-05-2010, 11:08 PM
The society of Klingons is based off of the Samurai, but only loosely.
Ex. Klingons are a cast based system, Warriors, Scientist/Medics, Workers, Non-Klingons and finally outcasts/those deemed w/out Honor.

The code of the Klingons is again, loosely based on Bushido, the tactics actually seem to incorporate more of a Ninja mindset than a Samurai. That being said, honor was everything to both a Samuai and a Ninja.
One could also view thier society as Roman or Greek, being that they were dominated by one caste over another. (which most ancient civilzations were) However, the political side of Klingon society, is purely based upon Roman Councils structure (also as was the Romulans)

Now, as to a cloaking device being cowardly... no. What one does with it may/may not be concidered cowardly.
Attack unarmed civilians, yes, that is an honorless act. Attacking an enemy unawares and recloaking before they realize what hit them, no. That is usage of a weapon of war, to take advantage of foe. It not the Klingon's fault the enemy was unprepared for such an attack, nor was it thier fault the enemy didn't have the technology/means to detect such an impending attack, before it happened.

(basically this was no different that WWII British pilots using the sun as a means of "cloak" during dogfights or egression to combat during the air battles over Britain vs the ME109. It simply using all the abilities one has to take advantage of a fight, and dictate terms to opponent. If one cannot adapt, one will always lose.

Now, in more closely resemblance of the samurai would be the Jem'Hadar. Lighting fast attacks, aimed to quicky and efficiently kill one's enemy. Victory is Life, and the belief that before battle, they state " I am X, and I am dead " as well as how they viewed the Vorta, and Founders. If they were told to go die, they did just that. If they disobeyed, they died.

One last note, Klingons frowned and even spurned those who died in vane. Quite a few episodes where they laughed and even disgraces another klingon who died as a fool. (TNG/DS9) As well during the Dominon/Federation/Cardassian War in DS9, Mar'tok explaining to Sisko, I will NOT allow my warriors to a needless death, or in vane. It is one thing, when the Dahar Master sacrificed his ship and crew, to allow the rest to escape, than to knowingly engage a futile battle for no benefit at all. ( Waste in Klingon society is bad juju)
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# 17
03-05-2010, 11:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santroff View Post
Nice job. I probably could have come up with something more witty though. That was just off the top of my head. Maybe:

"JEALOUSY"

"They can cloak."


"ENVY"

"Klingons can cloak, but we can't"
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# 18
03-06-2010, 01:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
There is no honor in whining you are right. Therefore 95% of KDF are honorless dogs.
Maybe, but 100% of the feds are.
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# 19
03-06-2010, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vobe
Nice job. I probably could have come up with something more witty though. That was just off the top of my head. Maybe:

"JEALOUSY"

"They can cloak."


"ENVY"

"Klingons can cloak, but we can't"
Here's my attempt:

http://i45.tinypic.com/f0srhe.jpg
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Posts: 120
# 20
03-06-2010, 04:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echko
Relating Klingon to Samurai is pretty far off. I'm sure I don't have to go through all this, but the Samurai did not make up an entire culture or society, they coexisted along with all the other Japanese people. If you are going to relate the Klingon to anything it would most likely be the ancient Greek Spartan society. Klingon in the various shows have always said 'Death before dishonor.' The 'type of honor' you are referring to about the Samurai is hardly the same as the Klingon. Klingon fight to show dominance, they do not use deception or trickery to gain political power. They have always had the mindset of you are going to die or I am, and that running is not an option.

My post is pretty irrelevant to the game, however Klingon ships having battle cloaking abilities does go against their culture.
"Do not use deception or trickery to gain political power."...?

Then you haven't watched Star Trek, esp. TNG. Re. Chancellor-ship, succcession, and most esp. House of Duras, and alot of Klingon oriented story arcs.

Another example of the Klingons using cloaks to achieve victory is an episode in DS9, "Once More Unto The Breach" I believe it was, Kor's last episode.

Gen.Martok implements a plan where several BoP's are to strike at a Cardassian planeta based station. 2 BOP's decloak, do a devastating surprise attack, and get out of town. The Cardassians send repair teams out. Once they're fully out there doing their jobs, THEN Martok's main BoP group decloaks and attacks, causing even more damage and casualties, since the Cardassians expected the Klingons to have left already. An excellent example of Klingon cloak use and quick, surprise attacks to catch the enemy off balance and unaware.
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