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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
And now it's time for a session of Deep Thoughts....



I've been trying to think of why I was able to level all through STO's repetitive, canned PvP scenarios and still enjoy it whereas I couldn't manage the same thing in WAR, which also had repetitive, canned scenarios.


I think it's something to do with pace.


WAR was very "GO! GO! GO!" You spawn! Run to the enemy! Charge in! Fight! Fight! Fight! Die! Respawn! Run to the enemy again! Battles were big enough, long enough and involved enough people with a short enough run from the spawn spot that it tended to be best to just charge straight back into the ongoing fight. Very ADD-friendly.

Somehow that ends up boring me faster than a game that has some gaps in the action. In STO it's more important to regroup after death, get everyone back together and reorganized and then go back to meet the enemy. While you're doing this there's more time to think about what happened in the last exchange. So at the end of the day there's more of an impression of a lot of interesting battles rather than one continuous blur of vague, non-stop, repetitive action.



I'd probably enjoy Global Agenda as well, since it looks like basically the same concepts as STO -- canned scenario maps, basically, with fixed team sizes in an FPS style setting where regrouping is important, etc. I think what's keeping me tied to STO rather than switching to GA is the combo of space combat + ground combat. Space combat is nothing like ground combat so STO feels like two games in one. (Now that I think about it, Planetside sort of had this effect too -- basically 3 or 4 games in one: infantry combat felt nothing like ground vehicle combat which felt nothing like BFR combat which felt nothing like air combat. You got a lot of diversity from just one game.)

STO still needs work, no doubt about that, but I have found it to be surprisingly enjoyable for the diversity and the pace. They've hit upon a formula that I think can work very well for long term PvP enjoyment.

Biggest disadvantage to STO vs GA is the fact that I could join Global Agenda tomorrow and all play with guildmates who have been there for a month. Anyone joining STO tomorrow will have to play the "level matchup game" where we can only play together if we're roughly the same level and stay roughly the same level. That's a big weakness of the MMORPG market. My friends can invite me right now to join them in GA but I can't invite them to join me here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-11-2010, 11:21 AM
Since we are talking about the War, see the "War" link in my sig for making it contextually meaningful.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-11-2010, 12:55 PM
What is/was WAR? Warhammer? eh...i was pretty happy with precu pvp in Star Wars Galaxies. The best pvp I have ever played in any mmo.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-11-2010, 01:36 PM
If I could change any concept of this game, I would make it so that you could play with your friends...and that you could freeze leveling. Even as it stands, you don't spend any points anywhere during a rank, eventually you will hit XX0 and be moved to the next higher tier.

I do not need 3 level 45's. I miss Tier 1,2,3 and 4 combat. The only way to get there again is to delete a toon and start over. I out-leveled my friends that played less, so they quit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-11-2010, 01:45 PM
to me the main reason why i'm here is because it offers a fairly unique take on PvP, space combat. Fighting in 3 dimensions is fairly intriguing and different from most mmo PvP.

That said; I won't touch the ground pvp because I also play guild wars (see avatar). the PvP in gw is a dynamic and flowing system. there are different tiers (of organization, not level) for pvp, just over a thousand (yes a thousand) skills but a limit to the amount of skills you can take (8 skills over two professions) which means that there is a near infinite amount of creativity involved when making original team builds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-11-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec View Post
I out-leveled my friends that played less, so they quit.
Yeah, one of my guildmates who stopped playing for a while showed back up, but I don't get the impression he's sticking around. He's way under us in level now and we can't play together, and with the XP nerfs he might be looking at 3-4 week of solo/pug gameplay to catch up. I wouldn't be surprised if he just quit again.

It's an aspect of the MMORPG that I really hate.

Cryptic is bringing in side-kicking but it would probably be easier to bring us down to his level rather than bring him up to ours. I can go knock the dust off of my T3 ship, get in it and basically be like a T3 player again with very little effort required to handicap me. I'd be happy to do that.

How they would bring him up to my level, I dunno. I assume he'd still be in a crap ship and wouldn't be very competitive. It's not like the other Cryptic games where elevating someone's level is just a question of boosting their stats so they do appropriate damage -- he needs a whole new ship, gear, everything.



MMORPGs have got to solve this problem.

We need to go back to the UO model or Planetside model or something. This business of "ding! hey guys, I can't play with you anymore" is death to social groups in games like this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-11-2010, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamz
Yeah, one of my guildmates who stopped playing for a while showed back up, but I don't get the impression he's sticking around. He's way under us in level now and we can't play together, and with the XP nerfs he might be looking at 3-4 week of solo/pug gameplay to catch up. I wouldn't be surprised if he just quit again.

It's an aspect of the MMORPG that I really hate.

Cryptic is bringing in side-kicking but it would probably be easier to bring us down to his level rather than bring him up to ours. I can go knock the dust off of my T3 ship, get in it and basically be like a T3 player again with very little effort required to handicap me. I'd be happy to do that.

How they would bring him up to my level, I dunno. I assume he'd still be in a crap ship and wouldn't be very competitive. It's not like the other Cryptic games where elevating someone's level is just a question of boosting their stats so they do appropriate damage -- he needs a whole new ship, gear, everything.



MMORPGs have got to solve this problem.

We need to go back to the UO model or Planetside model or something. This business of "ding! hey guys, I can't play with you anymore" is death to social groups in games like this.
I always liked the GW aspect of PvP, maximum level 20 (yaya I know) with the option to start a PvP character soley for pvp with no access to pve. This downside is offset by the fact that he has instantly the maximum level, has access to maximum level gear (theres no such thing as super rares that deal XX more damage; same baselines different skins), has access to all unlocked skills and pvp arenas. I reroll a dedicated PvP slot on gw all the time to practice and play different stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-11-2010, 02:00 PM
What I like about STO over the typical MMO is that you actually have to play it.

You move, you flank, you use cover, you attack when, and only when, you want to. Aside from special attacks and spells, combat in FFXI (my first MMO) just involved clicking attack, then let the random number generators get on with it.

In many ways STO would work as a single player game (although, whether or not it would be a good one is a matter of opinion); most MMOs would not, because if you take out the social interaction and teamwork, the bare gameplay elements are just plain dull.

There is also the fact that, with both space and ground play, we kinda have two games in one; which helps keep things that bit more interesting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-11-2010, 02:52 PM
To be honest If I had not been a mug and purchased a lifetime subs I would of been long gone by now. Im hoping for some awesome update at some point but pretty much lost all faith. The PvP daily is all I login to do now in some futile attempt to convince myself im getting my lifetimes worth from it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-11-2010, 09:46 PM
I am still here because I enjoyed the ground PvP in Beta and decided to buy a lifetime in order to keep doing it. I also enjoy the Fed PvE, so it is a win all around for me.

I really do think this game has some of the better PvP around, even the space can be fun, though I suck at it.
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