Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-12-2010, 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleqwin View Post
recording something so SIMPLE as number of matches won and number of matches lost, by whom.

that is QUITE within the realm of database programming.

so, ummm, what was it you said? oh,

Go back to school.
Ok lets say you save 1000 matches, now tell me, how you will clear the data of playerskill, which is an upredictable variable, so you can get objective results on what is, and what isnt overpowered. Because if you dont filter the skill out, the "skilled" will always outpeforms the noobs, so nerf the skilled ?

So please tell us, how to filter out 10000 individual playerskill variables out of 1000 matches, and im sure you will get a nobel prize for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-12-2010, 05:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenikis View Post
You say it in a tone and grammer that suggests I give a crap? And what Dalnar said.
LOLZ, Ditto

side note: do you know what "Irony" is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenikis View Post
The people that PvP regular know what is imba in STO and what isnt. We get random QQ threads like this one pop up now and again clearly by people that all is left for them to do is L2P. Everyone else is getting along just dandy.
Surely you could share some of this immense L2P wisdom that you have gained?

"WE" are waiting...

<cricket, cricket>
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-12-2010, 05:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Ok lets say you save 1000 matches, now tell me, how you will clear the data of playerskill, which is an upredictable variable, so you can get objective results on what is, and what isnt overpowered. Because if you dont filter the skill out, the "skilled" will always outpeforms the noobs, so nerf the skilled ?

So please tell us, how to filter out 10000 individual playerskill variables out of 1000 matches, and im sure you will get a nobel prize for it.
Since we are talking about a fictional 1000 matches here, let's just postulate that out of those 1000 matches, 800 of them were won by one team, and further that Subnucleonic Beam just happened to be used between 5 and 10 seconds before 10000 of the kills.

Would that seem to indicate something?

Oh, and yes, I agree with you that player skill is an unpredictable variable. So it cannot be measured. So it is not recorded. I'm sorry, i must have missed it, What is your point again?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-12-2010, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleqwin View Post
Since we are talking about a fictional 1000 matches here, let's just postulate that out of those 1000 matches, 800 of them were won by one team, and further that Subnucleonic Beam just happened to be used between 5 and 10 seconds before 10000 of the kills.
Huh ? SNB has nothing to do with pvp balance as both sides have equal access to it, that doesnt mean its not overpowerd, but it has nothing to do with balance. Dont mess apples with pears. Im asking you, how you would filter out 10000 personal player-skills out of 1000 recorded matches, to compare the data.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-12-2010, 05:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corsai View Post
I am extremely frustrated with how broken space PvP is. Here are my critiques:

1. SnB + VM. Many have said this before, I'm just echoing the sentiment...nerf the heck out of these in pvp. Follow blizzards model with WoW if you need an example. Crowd control use to have the same mechanics in both pvp and pve until they got their act together and went "oh wow, we need to change this".

2. Klingon cloak. This is arguably the most broken part about space pvp in paritcular. There is no counter to it and furthermore it has no limits. Also, klinks can use it to escape combat and save their butts. You're going to sit here and tell me this is "working as intended"....

3. I've read that PvP queues are going to "fixed" soon. I hope this means that I won't warp into a battle already in progress and be surrounded by five ships in the process of blowing up a teammate right next to me?

Queue's should have a timer to join the match AND a timer to actually begin so that those that hesitate to join the queue start the battle at roughly the same time as those who join instantly. WoW did this as well, so please learn from their example.

4. I unfortunately made the mistake of picking an assault cruiser to bring into pvp matches. You gotta do someting about the turn rate because even though I have a Mk X covariant shield, an engineer resistance console, and several defensive cooldowns it takes about 3-4 seconds to punch through my shields and armor..
I agree, and I am a Science Captain. I do not want an "I Win" button. As such, I refuse to use VM. Sadly, I feel I must use SnB BEFORE it gets used on ME. These 2 abilities ALONE make such a shambles of what could be a great starship combat simulator. Shields, power, weapons, gear, BO abilities, none of that matters. SnB, VM = 99% chance of a kill.

2) I know. cloak detection is 15 seconds out of 90. period. but that is Cyptic's version of "balance" ...I guess.

4) but you're supposed to be the tank...5 seconds? really? ummm, OUCH! Where o' where is the BALANCE?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-12-2010, 05:44 AM
firepower too high your kidding right. I have at best 2 seconds to get to a cruiser's hull before he starts his RSPs and I can't touch him. Unless like most feds he doesn't stop shooting his beams at me when I glow blue. Seriously firepower is fine get multiple RSPs like every other cruiser and you will live. Otherwise do what the good fed teams do, extends shields to the victim and focus fire on the guy doing the damage. That will keep me under 200k damage easily. if you just sit there doing passive heals like emergency to shields your dead in 5 seconds easy.

K'rapok General KDF
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-12-2010, 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
Huh ? SNB has nothing to do with pvp balance as both sides have equal access to it, that doesnt mean its not overpowerd, but it has nothing to do with balance. Dont mess apples with pears. Im asking you, how you would filter out 10000 personal player-skills out of 1000 recorded matches, to compare the data.
So to you, an overpowered ability has nothing to do with balance. Oh. Interesting.

I answered your question. I see that you missed the answer. Player skill cannot be measured. Thus you cannot "filter out" what you cannot measure.

Quote:
Oh, and yes, I agree with you that player skill is an unpredictable variable. So it cannot be measured. So it is not recorded. I'm sorry, i must have missed it, What is your point again?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-12-2010, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harleqwin View Post
So to you, an overpowered ability has nothing to do with balance. Oh. Interesting.

I answered your question. I see that you missed the answer. Player skill cannot be measured. Thus you cannot "filter out" what you cannot measure.
Doesn't matter, in the sample sizes you're talking about player skill evens out to the point where it becomes statistically insignificant. The bell curve of Klingon ability may be a few microns to the 'win' side of the Federation, but to suggest that over 1000 matches it will affect the results in any meaningful way shows a woeful lack of understanding of statistics - and indeed human behaviour.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29 moar blalances
03-12-2010, 06:16 AM
more on balance from another thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
My toons name is Outcast, i am a subnuc/vm'er (took 2wks therapy to say that) if you see me on the t5 roster know that if you try to cap alone i am going to find you and kill you. It takes so long to cap i can fly over have a look, get a nice position, drift in to 5k and slow to 1/4 impluse decloak blow you up wait for recharge on cloak and move off. QQ if you must, flame me for using the 'lame combo' whatever in the end until it is nerfed, or until i cam get my hands on some bridge officer skill combos i would like to try (i have seen them but they are all on starfleet toons dammit) this is what i am going to be using.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-12-2010, 06:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_Arac
Doesn't matter, in the sample sizes you're talking about player skill evens out to the point where it becomes statistically insignificant. The bell curve of Klingon ability may be a few microns to the 'win' side of the Federation, but to suggest that over 1000 matches it will affect the results in any meaningful way shows a woeful lack of understanding of statistics - and indeed human behaviour.
Mark, I am curious as to how you come to that conclusion. How is "player skill" measured?
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