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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-12-2010, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
How many raptors have you seen in Tier 5 PvP?

Yes it is especially if you save a RSP.

If you can't do it then you're the only one I've seen not be able to thus far.
so you have no idea how cloak works....you have no shields...

battlecloak is most of the time a selfkill....why?

Because you still get all dmg sequences AND torpedos fired at you....this makes it a 50/50 chance to survive a battlecloak.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-12-2010, 08:13 AM
No they are not out of balance. We value your questions please feel free to ask another.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-12-2010, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_Flauschson
so you have no idea how cloak works....you have no shields...
Did you read anything I wrote?

I never mentioned once that you had shields with cloak?

Quote:
battlecloak is most of the time a selfkill....why?

Because you still get all dmg sequences AND torpedos fired at you....this makes it a 50/50 chance to survive a battlecloak.

Maybe if you're a bad player? Sounds like you don't know how to time your cloak or evasive maneuvers ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec View Post
RSP? You realize that when the shields drop 3 seconds before fully cloaked that RSP is worthless, right? No shield, nothing to reverse.

Your rant is based on never having played a BoP captain.
Apparently you don't understand how to use a BoP with RSP to escape.

Of course you don't press RSP then IMMEDIATELY cloak. lol

I didn't even think that needed to be EXPLAINED. Especially considering that EVERY BoP in Tier 5 knows what I'm talking about....


You pop RSP, evasive manuvers, full power to engines, once you're out of range and safely away from the tugboats THEN you cloak.


Good grief......It's like I have to run BoP PvP clinic for all the bad players so they can post effective comments on the forums (or avoid posting bad ones).


Quote:
It sounds to me like you are against the CC in the game. Feds spam VM/SNB/FBP as much, if not more than their Klingon counterparts.

Stay focused on the real problem.
You need to re-read my post.

Your reply doesn't even make sense base on what I wrote.

Maybe you should take some of your own advice and stay focused yourself.

The main point obviously when right over your head.


Also are you suggesting that there are more Federation Science ships then BoPs in PvP matches?

I sure hope not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-12-2010, 09:52 AM
if you removed uni slots from a bop what exactly do you suggest it be replaced with? escort model? we have that, cruiser model, we have that. this just leaves science, at least until t5 tho it would have cloak which the carrier doesn't.

so you have a dedicated sci vessel, the top slot goes to sci, so what for cmdr/ltcmdr and lt? chances are it will be exaclty what any sci officer uses atm for bo's. so it wouldn't really change much. even a tac officer can make use of a 4 slot sci boff in a bop for cc. it would need an increase in science consols to justify its dedicated role it has less guns but that would remain so most likely. it should gain the free target systems of sci vessels.

given the bops phyiscal weakness compaired to other ships comes in part from its versitility what lvl of bonuses should it be given to compensate for the loss, 5%, 10% shield/hull bonus?.

In all honesty i do not see that making the bop a dedicated ship, which would almost certainly have to be sci given the deficiency in the kdf navy would make the ship any less dangerous in the hands of a decent player.

Unless it is your plan of course that no kdf ship is able to use higher lvl sci abilities at all until the carrier, which turns so slow no ship would ever get caught in its 45 deg arc to ever be effected by cc. if that is so i suppose you want us to have two escorts, which becomes one escort and the raptor is retired from service. Thus only ur mighty federation can use any cc at all and the kdf become easier to fight than the npc's that have innate sci skills.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-12-2010, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardept View Post
if you removed uni slots from a bop what exactly do you suggest it be replaced with? escort model? we have that, cruiser model, we have that. this just leaves science, at least until t5 tho it would have cloak which the carrier doesn't.
.
Very good point.

It leaves us with a few limited options.


#1. You can introduce another ship on the Klink side that is more sci oriented. - Not likely to happen.

#2. You can limit CC in general which also affects Fed Sci ships. Not exactly what most would deem as "fair"

#3. You can buff Sci Team and immunities.

#4. You can do 2 or 3 or a combination while buffing other Sci abilities. You then could have the same issue you started with....

#5. You could limit the Sci options available on BoP to Lt or LtC level. Potential issues with this as well as you already explained with the ship selection on Klink side.



Probably the most viable option is to do some adjustments to immunities when being affected by certain Science abilities.

Tweak it so that they're still viable but can't be abused endlessly.

Possibly give Federation Sci ships an additional ability to compensate.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-12-2010, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
Did you read anything I wrote?

I never mentioned once that you had shields with cloak?




Maybe if you're a bad player? Sounds like you don't know how to time your cloak or evasive maneuvers ability.




Apparently you don't understand how to use a BoP with RSP to escape.

Of course you don't press RSP then IMMEDIATELY cloak. lol

I didn't even think that needed to be EXPLAINED. Especially considering that EVERY BoP in Tier 5 knows what I'm talking about....


You pop RSP, evasive manuvers, full power to engines, once you're out of range and safely away from the tugboats THEN you cloak.


Good grief......It's like I have to run BoP PvP clinic for all the bad players so they can post effective comments on the forums (or avoid posting bad ones).




You need to re-read my post.

Your reply doesn't even make sense base on what I wrote.

Maybe you should take some of your own advice and stay focused yourself.

The main point obviously when right over your head.


Also are you suggesting that there are more Federation Science ships then BoPs in PvP matches?

I sure hope not.
Ah, like any bad poster, you immediately move into being insulting.

You obviously never flew a BoP at Tier 5.

You OP is equates to another Fed complaining about Klingons being overpowered because they lost. You assertions are self-serving and lack a complete understanding of the mechanics of PvP balance. In short, you are asking for a nerf because you refuse to see the distict advantages that the Federation side has.

The entire Klingon side has sacrificed to give the Bird of Prey a niche to be flexible and adaptable. Why? Because the Federation side has obvious advantages in all their ships.

The ONLY unbalanced aspect to pvp is this: Communication. Federation captains are the worst communicators in the game, by and large. The KDF side have been pvping together for so long that communication is less of a factor, since they already understand their roles and how to maintain support range and assistance. The Federation side, especially at Tier 5, has very little experience, by comparison, in tactical communication. This is due to their being 10 feds to 1 kdf.

You are whining about Universal slots, but you don't see that they have been bought and paid for by the nerfing of all other ships. You realize that Fed Escorts get damage bonuses that NO KLINGON SHIP GETS. You realize that ALL KLINGON SHIPS HAVE LESS HULL.

I am sorry that you feel that you are disadvantaged, but the reality is that you are not. Federation players are VM/FBP/SNB happy and anyone that denies this is delusional. I have yet to enter any capture and hold instance where I didn't get hit 3, 5 or even 8 times in a row get hit with SNB and VM. Couple this with the sci ships being about to target my shields without taking up an additional BO skill, and you will understand the problem.

If you are willing to sacrifice your Escort and Sci Ship imbalances, you can then talk about nerfing the KDF.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-12-2010, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec View Post
Ah, like any bad poster, you immediately move into being insulting.
There is so much irony here I had to laugh out loud.


Quote:
You OP is equates to another Fed complaining about Klingons being overpowered because they lost. You assertions are self-serving and lack a complete understanding of the mechanics of PvP balance. In short, you are asking for a nerf because you refuse to see the distict advantages that the Federation side has.
You need to re-read my post and try to make an intelligent reply next time that counters any of my points.


Your broad sweeping generalizations makes your statements completely unfounded and rather absurd.

You also have no idea how many matches vs. Klinks I've won and lost.

Nice way to get off topic there.


You boast that others don't have an understanding of PvP mechanics while you can't even make an intelligible reply that covers any of the points made in the previous post.

I find this especially funny considering your opening statement about me "move to be insulting" ? lol


You decided to get personal instead of countering any of my points.

You do so while being a hypocrite. Well done.


Quote:
The ONLY unbalanced aspect to pvp is this: Communication.
You sound like one of those guys who is desperately trying to hold on to an OP ability while changing the topic to avoid countering any of the points made in the previous post.

Quote:
You are whining about Universal slots, but you don't see that they have been bought and paid for by the nerfing of all other ships. You realize that Fed Escorts get damage bonuses that NO KLINGON SHIP GETS. You realize that ALL KLINGON SHIPS HAVE LESS HULL.
Whining? You accuse me of being insulting while posting this?

Especially after this tearful post of yours I'm replying to.....

Irony x10

Quote:
I am sorry that you feel that you are disadvantaged, but the reality is that you are not. Federation players are VM/FBP/SNB happy and anyone that denies this is delusional. I have yet to enter any capture and hold instance where I didn't get hit 3, 5 or even 8 times in a row get hit with SNB and VM. Couple this with the sci ships being about to target my shields without taking up an additional BO skill, and you will understand the problem.

There is only one ship that has the ability to Sci spam CC like most BoPs do at Tier 5.

That's a Science Vessel.

Guess what? It's damage isn't even remotely close to a BoP nor can it cloak evade.


Again are you trying to say that there are MORE Science Vessel or as many as BoPs in PvP matches?


Your entire post sounds like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you know the fix is coming at some point.

I genuinely hope you read this now and realize that your post is as embarrassing to you as it was funny for me to read lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-12-2010, 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
There is so much irony here I had to laugh out loud.




You need to re-read my post and try to make an intelligent reply next time that counters any of my points.


Your broad sweeping generalizations makes your statements completely unfounded and rather absurd.

You also have no idea how many matches vs. Klinks I've won and lost.

Nice way to get off topic there.


You boast that others don't have an understanding of PvP mechanics while you can't even make an intelligible reply that covers any of the points made in the previous post.

I find this especially funny considering your opening statement about me "move to be insulting" ? lol


You decided to get personal instead of countering any of my points.

You do so while being a hypocrite. Well done.




You sound like one of those guys who is desperately trying to hold on to an OP ability while changing the topic to avoid countering any of the points made in the previous post.



Whining? You accuse me of being insulting while posting this?

Especially after this tearful post of yours I'm replying to.....

Irony x10




There is only one ship that has the ability to Sci spam CC like most BoPs do at Tier 5.

That's a Science Vessel.

Guess what? It's damage isn't even remotely close to a BoP nor can it cloak evade.


Again are you trying to say that there are MORE Science Vessel or as many as BoPs in PvP matches?


Your entire post sounds like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you know the fix is coming at some point.

I genuinely hope you read this now and realize that your post is as embarrassing to you as it was funny for me to read lol.
What you are not seeing is this:

A science ship can disable my shields without taking up an extra BO skill. They can then, once shields drop, fire torpedoes that instantly explode my paper thin hull.

Fed escorts flown by sci officers can snb and vm a BoP and then deliver a devastating attack since they get damage bonuses to weapons.

Do you deny any of this?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-12-2010, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
There is only one ship that has the ability to Sci spam CC like most BoPs do at Tier 5.

That's a Science Vessel.

Guess what? It's damage isn't even remotely close to a BoP nor can it cloak evade.


Again are you trying to say that there are MORE Science Vessel or as many as BoPs in PvP matches?


Your entire post sounds like a little kid throwing a tantrum because you know the fix is coming at some point.

I genuinely hope you read this now and realize that your post is as embarrassing to you as it was funny for me to read lol.

In the past week, I have faced mostly sci officers on science ships. I would venture to guess that 70% of the feds I fight are science in either escorts or sci ships. Several of these matches have been a whole sci team .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-12-2010, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec View Post
What you are not seeing is this:

A science ship can disable my shields without taking up an extra BO skill.

Dude I apologize in advance if this comes off wrong but if your shields are going down when you're hit by a Subsystem Shields I then you really need to work on your PvP.

When comparing a Sci vessel to a BoP - Target Subsystem I does not equal out to the cloak evade capabilities or burst damage of a BoP.


Quote:
Fed escorts flown by sci officers can snb and vm a BoP and then deliver a devastating attack since they get damage bonuses to weapons.

Do you deny any of this?
Yes I do?

Escorts do NOT have BO Sci stations that are able to access to VM.

Weren't you just attacking me about not understanding the "basic mechanics" behind PvP?


Subnuc beam is another topic altogether. No one disagrees that it's a tad bit on the OP side atm.

However you don't need to be a Science officer to use a BoP with Sci spamming CC abilities.


You can be a tac officer and do a Jam Sensors + VM move for example that you CANNOT do on an escort.



Simply put, BoPs are "SUPER Sci" Escorts at the moment.


#1. They can Sci spam.

#2. Do Escort "like" damage

#3. Easily evade out of range using RSP then cloak.


Toss in the fact that most PvP fights are pug vs pug, pug vs premade, or 1v1 and it makes those characteristics even more potent.


edit: response after the fact

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunatec
I would venture to guess that 70% of the feds I fight are science in either escorts or sci ships. Several of these matches have been a whole sci team .
I would like to know where they're all hiding then when we're looking to fill our last infected spot. lol

No, actually Sci is the least played class on Federation at this time.

In my many many hours in Fed PvP at T5 you would be fortunate to see one Sci officer in a regular pug 5v5 match.

There are countless Tac and Engineers however.


But then again even if there were more Sci officers on Fed side it doesn't get around the issues surrounding BoPs.

It's a ship any captain type can jump into and Sci spam while enjoying all the PvP benefits I mentioned above....
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