Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-12-2010, 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoras_Serenitus View Post
TIn essence your arguments are towards keeping the situation as status quo because game mechanics allow you. But the question is: Should you?
That's not what I'm saying at all actually. I'm saying that we are doing nothing wrong by using tactics we have found to work, and dropping ones that don't. Just because we do that and you don't doesn't mean that we should be punished for it.

And as I said, FBP needs to be fixed, no question, but that's not our fault. I could go on about all of the crap that feds pull, but I don't because it's part of the game, and you aren't doing anything wrong with it. At most I'll ask the dev team to look at it for possible imbalance.

So saying that this is punishment for us for doing exactly what we're supposed to be doing is just wrong. Losing is punishment for people who refuse to adapt. FBP won't be going away when you get FvF, it's just going to exacerbate it.

Quote:
All your responses are valid and I wont counter argument them as much. The only problem I have is the fact that FBP is still a one faction favoured ability to a such a huge proportion. Although carriers and neg`vhars are slow moving ships, they can still cloack, maneuver and get into a position, fire off VM, SNB, practically lock down any ship they see fit. As for the FBP as a deternet, aye true. But the thing is that feds cant use it as well as klingons can, due to the fact that most klingons fit turrets and cannons opposed to 2/3 of the feds fitting beams.
As already said, carriers can't cloak. It takes us forever to get to the combat and ever since I've been a general we've basically given up the majority of the cloak advantage as a result. Most of the ships that I see on my team are carriers and cruisers, so FBP would be effective against us and is the reason why I don't use beams. Even BoPs have beams on them usually (until the next patch that changes cannons). We've learned, we've adapted, and we're waiting for you to do the same.

Punishment is something reserved for people who do wrong. Playing the game presented to us is not wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-12-2010, 11:21 AM
Fair enough. Im still eyeing a change, and FvF is for me Godsend as long as FBP in combination with cloacks as it is. And that has nothing to do with adaptions or bad gameplay. It has to do with the current mechanics of the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-12-2010, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoras_Serenitus View Post
Fair enough. Im still eyeing a change, and FvF is for me Godsend as long as FBP in combination with cloacks as it is. And that has nothing to do with adaptions or bad gameplay. It has to do with the current mechanics of the game.
And that's absolutely acceptable. FvF won't get you away from FBP, though, nor completely away from cloak. You'll find that a lot of feds, particularly escorts, will use jam targeting sensors to make themselves invisible to you, so will be cloaked AND shooting you, and everyone will sport a FBP.

Just a tip for when you do get to FvF, the jam targeting sensors is oftentimes a ploy. They use it to bait you into wasting a science team, and then VM you. So be careful for that
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-12-2010, 11:38 AM
Aye, but im more opt to the fact that beams will be more commenly used in FvF where there is NO exuse that only one faction seldom use them. This will too encourage people to THINK as both fed ships can feel the pain. Escorts are nimble ships and will go down swift.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-12-2010, 11:45 AM
You know, I believe that FvF will be a very bad thing for FvK, however I AM looking forward to it just so that I can see two FBP heavy fed teams go after each other. A video of that would be glorious
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-12-2010, 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Charette View Post
You know, I believe that FvF will be a very bad thing for FvK, however I AM looking forward to it just so that I can see two FBP heavy fed teams go after each other. A video of that would be glorious
Thats what i mean. It will be so ridiculous that it will be hilarious.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-12-2010, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam_Charette View Post
You know, I believe that FvF will be a very bad thing for FvK, however I AM looking forward to it just so that I can see two FBP heavy fed teams go after each other. A video of that would be glorious
this would require 3+ science vessels, considering that only FBP3 hurts significantly, on each team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-13-2010, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devoras_Serenitus View Post
I just want to air a thought which I can think can be viewed as a protest until FvK PvP is solved.

With the coming changes which will introduce FvF, we can be certain that FvK will be drastically reduced unless its for the dailies. For the Klingon player this is a sad situation and something I hope dearly will be fixed. But there is one thought which has crossed my mind. Why the HELL should Fed players even care or worry about Klingons losing their FvK games? Its no more or less what they deserve. why?

1. Feedback Pulse. Most Klingon players use this ability with a passion in combination with Reverse Shield Polarity, and thats understandable. 2/3 of the fed ships are beam based so its fairly simple to win any match.

2. As a result of Feedback Pulse affecting beams, Klingons are not affected since they can equip cannons, making a game breaking ability one side favoured. This in combination with the cloack which they can dictate when, where and how, puts fed in a major disadvantage. Klingon players argues that fed players have to use turrets. Then i ask who the HELL gave one faction such control and power to determine how players are to fit their ship, undermining their skill choices and virtually making beam weapons obsolete.
This is wrong!

Now considering these two factors, which Fed who wants to pvp would in his/her right mind que up under such conditions? I can safe say very few unless they want a challenge or for the dailies. FvF will be the feds salvation for a balanced and more fair PvP match, where both are affected by the feedback pulse in a fair degree and the fact we can see each other all the time.

Cryptic! FvF is fair but you`re undermining FvK to a huge proportion. Fix this! Start with feedback pulse and change it. When this is adressed, the rest will fall in place.

Klingons! FvF is somehow your punishment. Fed players are now taking away your fun, your enjoyment from seeing that fed ship go bom, because of how game mechanics are. Blame it if you please on fed players unability to pvp, lack of cooperation or them not fitting turrets. It doesnt matter how you twist and turn it, until its realized and hereby argued that something has to change.

I will hereby encourage FvF all the time, until the Klingon outcry is so loud that cryptic will have no choice to do something about it. That or the Klingons themselves change and adapt tactics that will encourage feds to compete on more fair grounds.

Now flame away, qq me if you wish. Just have in mind if you do so without posting constructive post, your only making yourself look like a fool.
yes but ...
can somebody explain why Klinks almost always loose on the capture the flag maps while they are almostalwaqys winning on the small arenas.
Maybe it's only my experience but i experienced this anomaly manys times.
Any clues?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-13-2010, 11:22 AM
BG5, Lost maybe 1 in 10 capture and holds. Not sure what tiers you speak of but it doesn't happen too much. Sometimes we just sit and blow up those that want to fight and not even bother with the resources.

FVF with the same rewards will damage the game.

There needs to be meaningful pvp in the game. A real in game reason to do it. Ie taking a cluster or starbase etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-13-2010, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artefaktum View Post
yes but ...
can somebody explain why Klinks almost always loose on the capture the flag maps while they are almostalwaqys winning on the small arenas.
Maybe it's only my experience but i experienced this anomaly manys times.
Any clues?
Because the capture maps favor ships which can spread out and operate independently, which the Feds tend to have more of. On my Fed cruiser I can go solo cap something and then hold out long enough for reinforcements arrive, or if only one (or sometimes two) come to fight me I can usually beat them.

On my BoP, soloing usually means death, especially if I have to uncloak and wait for something to cap.

Capture maps favor teams that can split up and cover several points at once, which means they need a lot of relatively sturdy ships. Klingons go a lot more heavily towards fragile but maneuverable and high-damage vessels, which tend to favor working in larger packs.




I kind of think that FvF will kill FvK because I already see players choosing the sorts of maps which most favor them. On my fed I love the capture maps and we usually win them, whether in PUGs or teams. I usually queue for 2 ground maps at a time because ground PvP doesn't favor one side or another.

On my Klink I almost never queue for KvK, because 2 teams both waiting around in cloak for 20 minutes until they literally bump into each other is freaking stupid. KvK space is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. It's slightly better for capture maps because you need to decloak to cap, but being in the BoP decloaked to cap then getting ambushed sucks a lot. Ground queues always pop faster on my Klink, and I think a lot of that may be because the Feds are avoiding the space PvP.

A lot of players hate ground PvP, so when I'm seeing more frequent pops for that, and when I favor it on my Fed because it's more balanced, it stands to reason that most players will join the queues that offer them better balance.





Frankly I really like that only one side gets cloaking. But that one mechanic changes the effectiveness of many other mechanics.

A big part of why Feds favor beams is that they don't get to choose which way they are facing at the start of a fight. Even in an escort, very often the fight starts with the enemy at your flank. Going heavy on beams is the best way to do good DPS to wide firing arcs.

On the Klingon side, every ship except for carriers can take whatever time they need to maneuvers so that the fight at least starts with their heaviest firepower facing the enemy. If the fight starts at near maximum range, it's relatively easy to keep your enemy even in a cannon's narrow arc.

There is a gigantic difference between cloak+CC and CC alone as well. Cloaking means that the first CC is going to land, and the best the target can do is react. With two ships fighting without cloak, at least one has the chance to do something before CC lands.

The Federation can choose to stack FBP or CCs, but it's not going to have the same effect because Klingons don't *need* to use beams and can almost always attack before their targets.
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