Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
03-13-2010, 03:09 PM
The whole exploit damage thing is going to be a non-issue once the patch goes live. People are going to survive these a lot more than they already do, and I already survive about half of the exploits made against my science officer (tacticals are usually the only ones who pull it off).

Queue issues are the only huge issue with ground PvP, and I rather enjoy maps where I am on the short team or alone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
03-13-2010, 03:13 PM
Teamwork is key, especially in pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
03-13-2010, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akwartz
Then they should bump up regular damage. The expose/exploit system could be a fun mechanic but as it is right now it's just too easy to abuse.

If you think people who spam rifle butt until they get an expose are bad, wait until you face your first full bioresearcher science officer team. I've seen more and more of those these days and it's just pointless to fight back against five people with multiple AoE expose attacks and holds.

I am a Bioresearcher and have been since Lt. Commander. It is an amazingly effective kit, but it lacks survivability. The Bioresearch kit while powerful, is less annoying than the Geophysicist kit in group settings, which comes with a root instead of the fragile hold of the Bio kit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
03-13-2010, 04:55 PM
Check out my ground PvP issues thread here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
03-14-2010, 12:40 AM
Fix the fuze armor cooldowns while lwe are at it... I don't know how many times i get spammed with this by the same eng.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
03-14-2010, 01:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akwartz
Then they should bump up regular damage. The expose/exploit system could be a fun mechanic but as it is right now it's just too easy to abuse.

If you think people who spam rifle butt until they get an expose are bad, wait until you face your first full bioresearcher science officer team. I've seen more and more of those these days and it's just pointless to fight back against five people with multiple AoE expose attacks and holds.
Those teams are tough, but not instant wins -- you can still fight the exploit side of the equation. My tactical officer generally does decently against them because Draw Fire draws the exploits out prematurely. My engineer makes her opponents weapons malfunction, and throws a cover shield in front of team mates that get exposed or held.

The holds are a *****, but with the way I can buff shields a hold won't kill, and though the exploits are dangerous, you can deal with them.

The rifle butt spam annoys me because its harder to defend against and only takes one button. I've done it myself a few times. You're pretty much guaranteed to get an expose within 10 seconds (often less) and the knockdown and stun procs are frequent enough to pretty much lock your opponent down while waiting for the expose. It's not the effects which are broken though, it's the ability to spam an expose.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
03-14-2010, 01:37 AM
Expose / Exploits are both a blessing and a curse. TO me, they are too frequent (even more so on Tribble) in Ground PvP.


But my main concern is when Open PvP becomes more frequent, expose / exploits will make it too easy for 1 on 1s. Just spam exposes and whoever is quickest (and luckiest) will be the winner. And I feel that will detract from the fun of PvP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
03-14-2010, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Expose / Exploits are both a blessing and a curse. TO me, they are too frequent (even more so on Tribble) in Ground PvP.
The problem is that, for most people, the expose/exploit system is the main way to get kills. It's just wrong.

Buff regular weapon damage, add diminishing returns to CC, make expose visible only to the player who generated the proc, do anything to change the fact that the deciding factor in most ground PvP fights is a 10% chance one-shot proc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
03-14-2010, 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Expose / Exploits are both a blessing and a curse. TO me, they are too frequent (even more so on Tribble) in Ground PvP.


But my main concern is when Open PvP becomes more frequent, expose / exploits will make it too easy for 1 on 1s. Just spam exposes and whoever is quickest (and luckiest) will be the winner. And I feel that will detract from the fun of PvP.
That's why nothing with an expose should be spammable.

I've got a Lt. Commander Orion Engineer. I've got 2 long range exposes (Weapon Malfunction and plasma stun pistol), one short range expose (seduction) and the same melee expose everyone gets (Palm Strike). wepons Malfunction has the most powerful and reliable CC out of the batch, but it has a 15s cooldown, so it's not spammable. The stun pistol has a 5 or 6 second cooldown. Seduction has a cooldown of a couple of minutes. Between those three, I can frontload 3 exposes, but after that there is 5 second gap between stuns and a longer gap between weapon malfunctions. All of those are single target abilities, so in a team vs. team fight it's highly unlikely that I'll be able to focus on one person enough to lock them down.

Other abilities with expose have similar cooldowns, with the more powerful exposes or exposes that can hit more players having longer cooldowns.

The broken part is rifle butt, because that has both a CC and an expose, and is spammable. You could juggle cooldowns and pick the best times to use your CC... or you can sprint up, circle-strafe, and spam the "3" key to keep your opponent locked down and proc a reliable expose within a few seconds.

There's no problems with the expose/exploit mechanic, as long as the cooldowns allow gaps.

EDIT --
Quote:
The problem is that, for most people, the expose/exploit system is the main way to get kills. It's just wrong.

Buff regular weapon damage, add diminishing returns to CC, make expose visible only to the player who generated the proc, do anything to change the fact that the deciding factor in most ground PvP fights is a 10% chance one-shot proc.
The thing is that 10% procs aren't quite random. If you plan your attacks you can make the procs fairly controllable. You can't just decide to get an expose on your third attack, but if you both protect yourself and throw in what exposes you are able, then you virtually guarantee an expose in longer fights.

In a minute's time, my Orion engineer gets 15 chances at an expose (not counting Palm Strike, that would give me like 60 chances at an expose, which is why it's a broken ability). While that doesn't work out to a 100% chance of an expose in a minute, if I survive that long I will probably get at least one expose. So I use my expose abilities and during the cooldowns I take cover and use my defensive abilities.

At the same time, a good opponent is trying the same thing, so I also need to watch out for his exposes and try to keep some sort of CC on him so he doesn't hit me with an exploit. Since my CCs and exposes are on the same abilities and those abilities have cooldowns, I have to be pretty careful about what I use and when.

The whole thing is random, but when you repeat a random event over a period of time, it becomes predictable and you can build strategies around it.

The alternative of buffing regular weapon damage to the point you don't need expose/exploit would just take strategy out of the game. The winner would be whoever shoots first.

I do think that some expose abilities need adjustment, but the basic system is fine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
03-14-2010, 11:39 AM
My experience, and granted I've only played PvP for 2 days now, is Science owns everyone. It is so one sided I just don't know how Cryptic could have released it like this. (Okay, I do, $$$) Still, it's not even remotely fun, team work or otherwise.
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