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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-21-2010, 06:12 AM
Viral Matrix after Subnucleonic Beam is a total waste since the player is already unable to do anything except moving around a bit. Hiting the Victim with "Target Engine Subsystem" or a Tractor Beam will do the same thing for you...

Not that its needed, cause the little bit of turning he could do otherwise wont buy him more then two or three seconds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-21-2010, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LnD-Rash View Post
Viral Matrix after Subnucleonic Beam is a total waste since the player is already unable to do anything except moving around a bit. Hiting the Victim with "Target Engine Subsystem" or a Tractor Beam will do the same thing for you...

Not that its needed, cause the little bit of turning he could do otherwise wont buy him more then two or three seconds.
Oh ! He can still run and move, even hide ! You don't want to loose a kill letting the guy a single chance don't you ?
And Disabling engines it's not 100%, VM is after SNB. Guys want their kills 100% chance. If opponent has a chance to resist, it's not real lame HCG PVP !

Victory is life ! At any cost, any mean. Lots of PVP HCG must be Crypto brainless Jem'haddar.

But it's a good reflection of our society. Winning is everything, no matter you have to take drugs or cheat to succeed, even in Olympics which should be totally focused on fairplay (rude word isn't it ?) guys come full of steroids. Worst insult is : loser !
Sad world.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-21-2010, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merel
Oh ! He can still run and move, even hide ! You don't want to loose a kill letting the guy a single chance don't you ?
And Disabling engines it's not 100%, VM is after SNB. Guys want their kills 100% chance. If opponent has a chance to resist, it's not real lame HCG PVP !
When one is hit with subnucleonic beam, one is unable to hit evasive maneuvers and even the speed increase from 100 engine setting is nowhere near enough to escape before you are blown to pieces if you cant even redistribute shield energy.

My point was that complaining about Subnuc+Viral Matrix is pointless, since Subnuc+Tractor or Subnuc+Target Engines will have the exact same result.

Subnucleonic Beam is always the deciding factor in any of those combos, Viral Matrix is pretty much fine as it is right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-21-2010, 10:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warmaker01 View Post
IMO, it's not the Science Officer class itself, just a few very specific things that everyone whines about:

FBP - The return firing is massive, and to top it off, bypasses shields. It's also very specific to Beam weaponry.

SNB - IMO, not much wrong with it. But what makes people hate it so much is that it is used in conjunction with the next one...

VM - An ultra powerful Root & Disable ability. Other games have this, but the balancing factor against such a powerful ability is that they usually break on damage. For some weird reason, Cryptic missed that memo. Having such a powerful disabling effect last such a long time and NOT break on damage is mindboggling. A few suggestions for VM:
- Keep long, powerful effects, but it ends upon damage inflicted on the target.
- Keep powerful effect, lessen time, retain current counters.
Rather backwards on SNB and VM; SNB has no counter and is more debilitating than VM simply for that reason. What makes people hate SNB is not what other abilities can be used after, but the fact that, more often than not, they are *dead.*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-21-2010, 10:45 AM
Would it help if all the team types could remove all effects? So Engineering or Tactical Team could remove VM?

The role-play explanation would just involve a different approach to solving the problem; in the case of VM, a Tactical Team could respond by stationing crewmen in various areas to take direct manual control of systems, or an Engineering Team could bypass infected systems and use auxiliaries when needed.

Part of the problem with science abilities in PvP, is that they are so powerful that you simply cannot PvP without a counter, and the only counter is science team. Which means that ships which already have fewer science stations are at a disadvantage since one of those stations must be devoted to Science Team. It would also allow captains better flexibility in choosing skills, since they wouldn't need to worry about buffing Science Team in particular.

Escorts would have a lot more flexibility if they could use a tactical station to cover their debuff protection, and cruisers would be more flexible if they could use engineering slots. And it would make Science abilities less overwhelming by allowing more defenses against them.






It's really not possible to argue that Science abilities aren't overpowered in PvP. You can't PvP without Science Team, and that only counteracts Science abilities. You can, however, get by just fine without the Engineering or Tactical equivalents. When it's simply not possible to play without the counter to Science abilities, but you can play just fine without the counter to other abilities, that's a pretty strong argument that Science abilities are OP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-21-2010, 08:47 PM
Here's all that needs to happen:


#1. Make SNB a FRAGILE hold.

That way it will still be useful and extremely powerful but you'll have to use some strategy when firing it off.



#2. Fix Sci Team. It is currently bugged.

Sci Team (from my understanding) is suppose to have a CHANCE to remove a Sci debuff (VM / Jam Sensors for example) once every "tick" throughout Sci Team's duration.

The higher the science team the greater the chance the debuff will be removed.

The higher the offensive power used the lower the chance the debuff will be removed (VM III for example).

Either way Sci Team is suppose to continue to ATTEMPT to remove the Sci debuffs throughout it's duration.

That's why some of the debuffs are stackable (Jam + VM or double VM for example) and can last very long amounts of time.



It was never intended for any holds to last 30 secs+ even under full aux despite the fact you can remove ONE debuff with a Sci Team.

Hence the description of the Sci Team ability itself.


It's a mechanic they will eventually get to at some point.

Cryptic has never been known for their PvP balance - see Perma Doms in City of Villains or Fire / EM Blappers in CoH. (At least then you could gobble a dozen inspirations though)


All the "Team" abilities, especially Tactical, need some more usefulness when it comes to removing extremely long debuffs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-21-2010, 09:08 PM
Another solution to the SNB VM problem people have is to make then share the same cooldown, maybe not as long as SNB itself but enough to make them slightly more mutually axclusive. SNB already triggers the cd on at least 1 sci boff skill, tykens rift if memory serves, so why not have them on shared CD and similar timings. That would dissuade people from stacking and allow sci players to make use of more interesting things.

I've a klingon Sci (already went tac and eng on fed so wanted full set) and to be honest don't use VM as it annoys the hell out of me when someone hits their IWIN combo and in my experience sci team doesn't clear VM. True that might make me branded as a pvp noob but meh I don't care.
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