Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
After seeing many players in cruisers get destroyed by a single BoP, I decided I better give a few tips to help out. Also some general advice on group pvp if you're in a cruiser. I'll keep it short and sweet.

First off, I've never been killed by a single BoP or escort for that matter. They are Paper Tigers. If you know what you're doing and what skills to have you should win.

For your BO skills:

At least two Reverse Shield Polarities. I have three.

At least one Extend Shields. This is a powerful defense tool for assisting your allies. If you don't have it, you're not a team player.

A couple engineering teams. Handy for healing both yourself and allies, and it drops a decent damage resistance buff too.

Feedback Pulse. Very useful for dealing damage back at the target, or force them to stop firing at you (unless they use cannons).

Tractor Beam. Don't let them escape when they are about to die. Because smart Klingons will try.

The other skills are up to you. I personally use High Yield Torp, Rapid Fire Cannon, Tactical team, and Aceton field.

Weapon Loadout:

Beam Banks are a bad idea in pvp. Yes they do great damage, but smart Klingons will never stay in front of you. They will be behind you 90% of the time.

Beam Arrays are pretty good.

My loadout is 4 Phaser Turrets and 4 photon torpedo launchers (Quantum Torps are good too). Two up front, two in back. Cruisers are the best for torpedo barrages simply because they have enough weapon slots for two. This allows me to fire a torp every 3 seconds with photons and every 4 seconds with quantum.

Consoles:

EPS Flow Transfer is mandatory.

At least two science consoles for boosting the power of your Tractor Beam. After that it's up to you for the rest.

General tips:

Never stop moving. How fast your ship is moving determines how often they will hit you. The slower you move, the more you'll get hit.

Don't panic. You're in a cruiser, you can take a beating. In fact, I like to let them do some hull damage just to make them think I'm in trouble. It feeds their bloodlust, lol.

Combat:

Here's how it will usually happen. Klingon decloaks behind me and starts blasting away. My shields go down in a few seconds. I reinforce my rear shield (usually by just clicking on the ship icon in the shields box, it always reinforces your weakest shield). I start firing. I don't bother trying to time my torps because I can just launch a steady barrage their way. If hull gets to about 75% I hit Reverse Shield Polarity and maybe Feedback Pulse if he's using beam weapons. I pop Rapid fire cannons and High yield torp and just keep firing. I don't try to turn around, it's pointless against a much more maneuverable ship, just kite them. RSP will usually drop and I wait a moment before popping another one (once again, feed their bloodlust). When their hull gets below 50% I prepare to tractor beam them in case they try to run away. If they're smart they stay out of tractor beam range. Sometimes they'll fight to the death, which just works out for you. If they start to bank away from you. Reduce engine speed to one quarter, hit evasive maneuvers, do a 180, hit full engines and try to get within tractor beam range. If you manage to tractor him, he's toast, if not, you can try and chase him, but odds are he'll cloak and get away.

That's the basics of my tactics and it works for me. Hope this helps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-19-2010, 10:59 PM
A few more things.
I assign fire all weapons to a key, some people talk about assigning it to 2 keys but 1 key works well enough for me. You could also change this to fire all of a specific kind so if you have that heavy tricobalt you want to try to score a deathblow with this could help.
I assign distribute shields to another key right next to my fire all weapons key, this allows me to fire all weapons/distribute shields and maneuver.
Anyone who tells you that you can not maneuver in a cruiser is wrong.
Not every klingon flies a BOP and even if you do get a BOP stuck in your tailpipe you can use evasive maneuvers to quickly turn this into you being on THEIR back. I have done this many times cruiser vs BOP so do not tell me it is not possible. As for the carriers and klingon cruisers, you can at least maneuver enough(without EM) to show them a different and stronger shield facing.

Ramming speed is your best friend, use it every time it is not on cooldown. Enemy sitting there keeping RSP EPtS science team etc. to keep their shields up? Use ramming speed and bleedthrough to kill them. Ramming speed in a cruiser can kill a BOP outright if done right. You can also use this to get distance between you and your enemy to buy time to regroup/repair or whatever. But I wouldn't really recommend
ramming a carrier unless you have a numerical advantage.

3 klingons just decloak and start hammering you? Do not for one second believe you have to sit there and take it because "I'm too slow" or "I couldn't turn if I wanted to". Keep engine batteries in your action bar next to evasive maneuvers and ramming speed.
Use them all 3 and move towards any friendlies and away from any hostiles.
Trust me you will turn as if you were in an escort and will be moving at FASTER than full impulse.
Those klingons will be 20+km away in just a few seconds sitting there scratching their heads.
I usually use the battery then evasive maneuvers and save ramming speed for when evasive maneuvers wears off(if applicable). You should also change your power settings to speed as some point during this since the battery only lasts a few seconds but should be enough for changed power settings to start kicking in.

I find hazard emitters to be a rock solid ability that you can use on yourself or your team.
It does not boost your warp core or engineering training but right now my HE II heals 14,400 vs ET II 8,928
and it has the same 30% damage reduction buff.
I used to love tractor beam till everyone started using snb/vm so instead I use science team.
And besides I can usually catch anyone who tries to run away with my run away move.


There is a lot more but nothing really comes to mind right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-19-2010, 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzx
After seeing many players in cruisers get destroyed by a single BoP, I decided I better give a few tips to help out. Also some general advice on group pvp if you're in a cruiser. I'll keep it short and sweet.

First off, I've never been killed by a single BoP or escort for that matter. They are Paper Tigers. If you know what you're doing and what skills to have you should win.

For your BO skills:

At least two Reverse Shield Polarities. I have three.

At least one Extend Shields. This is a powerful defense tool for assisting your allies. If you don't have it, you're not a team player.

A couple engineering teams. Handy for healing both yourself and allies, and it drops a decent damage resistance buff too.

Feedback Pulse. Very useful for dealing damage back at the target, or force them to stop firing at you (unless they use cannons).

Tractor Beam. Don't let them escape when they are about to die. Because smart Klingons will try.

The other skills are up to you. I personally use High Yield Torp, Rapid Fire Cannon, Tactical team, and Aceton field.

Weapon Loadout:

Beam Banks are a bad idea in pvp. Yes they do great damage, but smart Klingons will never stay in front of you. They will be behind you 90% of the time.

Beam Arrays are pretty good.

My loadout is 4 Phaser Turrets and 4 photon torpedo launchers (Quantum Torps are good too). Two up front, two in back. Cruisers are the best for torpedo barrages simply because they have enough weapon slots for two. This allows me to fire a torp every 3 seconds with photons and every 4 seconds with quantum.

Consoles:

EPS Flow Transfer is mandatory.

At least two science consoles for boosting the power of your Tractor Beam. After that it's up to you for the rest.

General tips:

Never stop moving. How fast your ship is moving determines how often they will hit you. The slower you move, the more you'll get hit.

Don't panic. You're in a cruiser, you can take a beating. In fact, I like to let them do some hull damage just to make them think I'm in trouble. It feeds their bloodlust, lol.

Combat:

Here's how it will usually happen. Klingon decloaks behind me and starts blasting away. My shields go down in a few seconds. I reinforce my rear shield (usually by just clicking on the ship icon in the shields box, it always reinforces your weakest shield). I start firing. I don't bother trying to time my torps because I can just launch a steady barrage their way. If hull gets to about 75% I hit Reverse Shield Polarity and maybe Feedback Pulse if he's using beam weapons. I pop Rapid fire cannons and High yield torp and just keep firing. I don't try to turn around, it's pointless against a much more maneuverable ship, just kite them. RSP will usually drop and I wait a moment before popping another one (once again, feed their bloodlust). When their hull gets below 50% I prepare to tractor beam them in case they try to run away. If they're smart they stay out of tractor beam range. Sometimes they'll fight to the death, which just works out for you. If they start to bank away from you. Reduce engine speed to one quarter, hit evasive maneuvers, do a 180, hit full engines and try to get within tractor beam range. If you manage to tractor him, he's toast, if not, you can try and chase him, but odds are he'll cloak and get away.

That's the basics of my tactics and it works for me. Hope this helps.
Didnt I kill you today with my bird of prey? Well actually didnt I kill you several times today with my bird of prey?

May of been someone with a name like yours though.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-20-2010, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the willingness to help and the effort to write you thoughts.

But there is simply too many things wrong here, lets not forget Klingons have Cruisers too, and they are twice as maneuverable as ours, plus can use cannons and almost everything else a BOP plus the engineering abilities. So this goes to show the fundamental handicap federation ships have, maneuverability.

On top of it, you are using a Turret Cruiser, While turrets can be good, I do not think we should have to be equipped with them only to be able to PvP. So it goes to show issues with beam Weapons.

While as a player you have adapted to curv the imbalance of the game, that is only a temporary solution, ultimately Cryptic needs to revise the combat system balance the Sides on a mechanic level, otherwise it alienates Star Trek and the Fans.

There is too much emphasis on abilities, and any other game's combat system that emphasizes abilities at least has both sides standing on the same level in terms of mitigation and maneuverability.

A Rogue, a Warrior a Mage, heck a Tank or a Plane or a Ship, in any other game that employs a system of abilities, at least has these Characters and Vehicles having same maneuverability and stats, with same accessibility to weapons.

This is not the case in STO at this time. federation ships and Klingon ships differ in capabilities, but have access to same abilities, which means that one side is overpowered on a fundamental level.

If we were to make an analogy immagine if you had two rogues in wow, one Alliance and One Horde, the Alliance togue would have 50% more hit points, no stealth and limited access to weapons.. the Horde Rogue would be 100% faster, have Stealth and access to Weapons dong double DPS, ...would that be balanced?

One could think that the Higher Hit points of the Alliance Rogue would balance with the Double DPS of the Horde Rogue, it should give him enough time to do enough damage to the Horde Rogue that has less Hitpoints.

But in practice this is far from being the case, because due to the higher maneuverability the Horde Rogue would be able to remove the opportunity from the alliance one, circle strafing, and be in a position to stun Loak, ambush etc while avoiding stun lock himself since he is faster and more maneuverable, the alliance rogue would never have the same opportunity to come behind the horde rogue.

And I am not even counting Stealth here, or the Fact that the Horde Rogue can dish out more Damage, the system is already unbalanced.

The real question is, how do you correct it? It will depend on what you want as gameplay.

One solution is to make both with same speed and maneuverability, and stealth, and give access to same weapons. That is how it is in WoW, the differences between the sides are superficial and cosmetic, and the outcome decided by the Abilities used,both players try to get the upper hand on one another via the use of abilities. It is balanced and It is ability based.

Another solution is to remove all disabling abilities from the game, and let the differences balance out, Klingons do more damage, feds have more hitpoints. There is till the issue of maneuverability here however.

So maybe a third solution is a possibility to balance this, keep some disabling abilities in the game but restrict them to one side in a selective manner.

Klingons do more damage, feds have more hitpoints, Klingons can be more maneuverable and can Cloak, but Feds have some CC abilities to balance it out.

That way when that BOP or Battlecruiser locks on to your 6, you can throw out an ability that would hold them there for a while so you can maneuver as well and get out of this situation. But we do not want an "I win" mechanic either, the counter balance of this is the fact that the Klingon would still be more maneuverable after the ability expires and can still opt to bail and cloak and come back to one;s 6.

That way you have a continuous combat that involves tactical competition of strengths and weaknesses, both players trying to get the upper hand on their enemy....and this only happens when the system is balanced.

Right now, STO's combat is one sided for the most part.

We have to understand something else too, while there are three different classes in STO, in practice we all are fighting with ships, the same dynamic as in a game like wow cannot be fully implemented in terms of Rogues and tanks and Healers and Mages....

In STO the different classes add to the pool of possibilities in a mixed battle, but all are Ships fighting in space.

The analogy is more like All are Rogues (or whatever other class you like) with a different Spec rather than each one is a trully different class.

All Ships can shoot and all can tank and all can heal, and since we are talking about ships, it simply cannot be any other way, the only thing that is missing is balance within this system.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-20-2010, 03:14 AM
Shredded a few cruisers tonight at Captain level. They were going from full to 0 in 12-15 seconds just from the damage from my BoP since the rest of the team was attacking sci ships and escorts with RSP or extend shields on them.

I've never killed cruisers so fast before. I think the first reason was no science team. I have VM (no subnuc since I'm tactical) and a couple times, it landed and they just sat there taking the blows.

Second reason would be they didn't use RSP. Sometimes this was due to the first reason, but other times my VM was on cooldown or I didn't want to use it yet.

Third reason is they sat in Tyken's Rift or didn't try hard enough to get out of it. The power loss dropped their shields (if my cannons didn't), engines and hurt their weapons.

Fourth reason could be not helping each other, but the way it was going tonight, I don't think that was relevant. The team was doing at least decent supporting each other (I saw extend shields being used multiple times). In this case, I think I was just dropping them too quickly with fire on my mark and AP:Alpha.

Oh, fifth reason would be just because you're a cruiser, don't assume you'll be the last targeted. I was catching these off guard because I was attacking them solo at the start of the engagement while the rest of my team was going after the more conventional targets of sci ships and escorts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-20-2010, 03:21 AM
I am failing to see what the 2 bop captains are doing in here. I mean other than saying they like to kill cruisers apparently.
Well I like to kill bird of prey, battle cruiser and carrier. So yea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-20-2010, 03:38 AM
My Fed alt flies cruisers, which is why I decided to read the thread. Thought about what I had to offer and realized the better parts are from the experience of blowing up cruisers, since I haven't felt particularly challenged flying one yet.

Who better to give advice on mistakes that lead to defeat than one who has experience defeating cruisers? Sure, I didn't spell out exactly what to do or list everything, but I did lay down some things a cruiser captain is likely to face. Feel free to ignore it though. I really don't mind because it IS fun blowing up cruisers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-20-2010, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Izzx
I reinforce my rear shield (usually by just clicking on the ship icon in the shields box, it always reinforces your weakest shield).
Technically incorrect. It balances your shields; so yes the weakest one will go up; but only to a point of balance with the others; reinforcing a shield is selecting it; and it will drain all other shields to maximize that one.

Btw you might want to have Emergency Power to Shields in your loadout... just in case someone disables them. If they double debuff though; it will bug and you cant restore the shield anymore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9 Response
03-20-2010, 01:41 PM
Thanks for the responses guys, and the input. I'm personally glad there are BoPs here to give their input, if it's constructive that is.

Also, I should apologies for not putting info in on group pvp. I'll get to that in a moment.

DaCrowz: I do remember seeing you in my favorite pvp hangout, the Kerrat System War Zone. Until they fix pvp queues that's about all I do. However, though I believe we've fought, it's never been on completely even footing, 1v1 with no external forces playing a part. I have seen you gunning down several inattentive feds in that zone though. I'm certain I've not lost to a BoP solo though, however, that doesn't mean it wont happen one day. I'm sure we'll get a chance to duel in Kerrat one day.

Suraknar: Yeah, you're right, there are things that need to be fixed. I think they should keep both sides unique, but I also think they underestimate the advantage of first strike and more maneuverability of the klink side. I really think they should add some unique ability to the fed ships other than slightly more hit points that would balance things out.

Here's a few tips on group pvp.

1. Team up....Team up...Team up. The number one thing that leads to victory, or at least putting up a good fight.

2. If you're in a cruiser, you have some of the best ally protection abilities in the game, stay close to your team, and use them on the target they focus fire on. If there is a science guy on your team, keep him alive at all costs. Me and a science guy took on two BoP's and a cruiser at the same time and we beat them. For some reason they tried to take me out first.

3. Remember, you're the best torp ship on the fed side, use them on whoever they're focus firing on. Even if their shields are up. You should be firing a torp every 3 or 4 seconds.

That's all I can think of for now. See ya.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-20-2010, 06:12 PM
Thought that was you but Im lousy at remember names

We go in there for daily missions from time to time. Usually fly in a 2 man or 3 man setup. I actually like that zone though most seem to whine the whole time in there from looking at chat. Its a fun one to me.
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