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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
The perfect setup that guarantees Klingons winning every time in 5 v 5 and there is no counters for it.

5 BoP, with maxed out sub nuc beam, or 2 or 3 BoP with this ability, and the rest Tactical BoP.

Stay cloak until feds gets bored spamming scan or their timers are on cool down.

Select 2 or 3 Targets of the opposite team. Get within 2km range of your designated targets.

Open up fire and sub nuc each target. At close range with assist and sub nuc lasting up to 27seconds, not even a Cruiser can survive. At most you will lose one ship and they will lose 3.

Then it's down to a 4 vs 2 fight, suffice to say, if you got any more Sub Nuc. beam on your team, they pretty much dead.

Recloak and wait for sub nuc timers, rinse and repeat.


Eliminate the science officer first, then science ship so that they can't use Sub. nuc. or Viral Matrix.

This works every time! And there is no game counter for this!!!

A counter would be to Make Sensor Scan last much longer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-19-2010, 10:15 PM
already mad ea thread about the situation and you forgot the part where they only need to use a AUX battery and keep weapon settingmaxed out, then the VM1 to lock down the whole team.
Yep klinks have the I win button but they lack the skill and the organization to actually pull it off most of the time. But when they do its GG for any fed team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-19-2010, 10:20 PM
It is sad.

And I always believed any game should have a counter for anything. That way, playing smart would be the only way to win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-20-2010, 01:23 AM
That's more an issue of subnuc. Take a team of 2 or 3 sci vessels with subnuc and VM and the rest tactical captains and how different is the result?

Shoot, tonight I was solo killing cruisers in less than 10 seconds as a tactical captain in a BoP (which has less weapons than the other ships). Only one of them I locked down with VM (no subnuc), the rest had sci team or VM was on cooldown or VM just wasn't needed. Most of them were just distracted with the rest of my team attacking their escorts/sci ships and didn't notice me doing what would be considered stupid, attacking a cruiser by myself. The damage can add up fast if the target is slow to react or unable to, which is a problem with subnuc because it has no counter.

You've only shown evidence that subnuc is a problem (the VM in the scenario can be removed with sci team, which can be used on allies). A team that uses subnuc on two or more opponents just drastically shifted the odds. It doesn't matter what ships they're flying as long as they are the right tier ships and well equipped. Subnuc needs a counter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-20-2010, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indolo
That's more an issue of subnuc. Take a team of 2 or 3 sci vessels with subnuc and VM and the rest tactical captains and how different is the result?

Shoot, tonight I was solo killing cruisers in less than 10 seconds as a tactical captain in a BoP (which has less weapons than the other ships). Only one of them I locked down with VM (no subnuc), the rest had sci team or VM was on cooldown or VM just wasn't needed. Most of them were just distracted with the rest of my team attacking their escorts/sci ships and didn't notice me doing what would be considered stupid, attacking a cruiser by myself. The damage can add up fast if the target is slow to react or unable to, which is a problem with subnuc because it has no counter.

You've only shown evidence that subnuc is a problem (the VM in the scenario can be removed with sci team, which can be used on allies). A team that uses subnuc on two or more opponents just drastically shifted the odds. It doesn't matter what ships they're flying as long as they are the right tier ships and well equipped. Subnuc needs a counter.
Not an issue of Sub Nuc, and that sounded like klingon talk to me!.

No way can federation get within 15km without being notice, even less chance of perform a sneak attack at 2km range. Energy weapons at that close of a range hurts like hell. But seeing your enemy coming allows all kinds of tactics for your group to counter, out maneuver or attack first.

So I'm sorry, but this is a huge issue that has to do with Cloak Ships able to move within such a close range, they can disable you and finish you off before your Teammates realized what happen.

And as my OP says, there is no counter for this.

Federation however, can not perform this move on Klingons has you never know what your dealing with, and where the cloak ships are located.

So Klingons always has the first drop, and always have the best range for their attacks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-20-2010, 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Robinson
The perfect setup that guarantees Klingons winning every time in 5 v 5 and there is no counters for it.

5 BoP, with maxed out sub nuc beam, or 2 or 3 BoP with this ability, and the rest Tactical BoP.

Stay cloak until feds gets bored spamming scan or their timers are on cool down.

Select 2 or 3 Targets of the opposite team. Get within 2km range of your designated targets.

Open up fire and sub nuc each target. At close range with assist and sub nuc lasting up to 27seconds, not even a Cruiser can survive. At most you will lose one ship and they will lose 3.

Then it's down to a 4 vs 2 fight, suffice to say, if you got any more Sub Nuc. beam on your team, they pretty much dead.

Recloak and wait for sub nuc timers, rinse and repeat.


Eliminate the science officer first, then science ship so that they can't use Sub. nuc. or Viral Matrix.

This works every time! And there is no game counter for this!!!

A counter would be to Make Sensor Scan last much longer.
So what you are saying is that SNB is a bit OP? I like how you try and make it sound like the BoP is part of this problem, though it really is not. The Fed side can, and in fact have, done this very tactic. Face it, whoever brings the most Science capts win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-20-2010, 02:24 AM
At 2km, there's a fairly good chance of being seen. If you're preparing to fight, your power is not sitting in your Aux to boost your cloak. Most klingons don't get closer than 5 or 6km and they can get spotted there too. It's not that big of a deal anyway, since the distance can be closed quickly.

An organized sneak attack can be countered if the team is using team friendly builds. Tonight, several times, the team uncloaked focusing on a single target. The attack was neutralized either by RSP, Extend Shields, Sci Team, Eng Team, etc. Overlooking queue issues, the benefit of cloak is in the start of the match, where one side can scout the other to make a target list (that scouting side suffers reduced hull strength the whole match). Once the fighting starts, good teams will form new lists based on the strengths of the targets.

Whether the enemy is coming out of cloak or flying in from 15km, dropping subnuc on multiple targets to disable them has the same amount of warning. They hit the ability and you're on cooldown and that's that. Subnuc is creating the advantage by shifting the odds, and unless they're neutralizing more than 2 ships in a 5v5, it's not an IWIN button, cause 3v5 can go either way depending on team ability. A team of 3 can defend against 5 and can win, so losing 2 ships to subnuc is no guarantee, so long as you're not wasting survival abilities to save ships that are going to be useless to the fight for 20 or more seconds. You're lucky if the enemy attacks the disabled ships.

How does Fed use this strategy against cloaked Klingons? Fedball waits for Klingons to uncloak. First ship to uncloak is the tank, so yeah, you shoot it but don't blow your abilities. Other ships uncloak to attack and the sci officers call their targets (so they don't target the same ships) and subnuc as those ships are uncloaking. The team either ignores the called targets, focusing fire on the still dangerous ones, or quickly eliminates the called targets. You get the same effect. One side ends up with a numeric disadvantage.

Everything in combat right now can be turned or countered through a cool head, skill and teamwork, except subnuc (and getting surprised by FBP). It's the only problem in your scenario. If there were a counter for subnuc, Klingons uncloak, subnuc their targets. The opposition counters most of the subnuc and pops defensive abilities to dull the attack, then lets loose their own offensive. That makes subnuc the problem, not BoPs, not cloaks, or whatever else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-20-2010, 02:35 AM
Am I misstaken or don't the Federation also have subnuc? It does not require a person to be in a sci vessel if I am thinking right, you could put a sci captain in a cruiser and he would have subnuc available, so the swing goes both ways so why blame Klingons?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-20-2010, 02:55 AM
I could accept that there are advantages to universal stations which may tilt balance a bit. I could accept that facing so many ships with cannons and slightly better turn rate per class might tilt the balance a bit. The two put together could be an issue, but cloak? Cloak is so minor against a competent team, I'd question if it's worth the reduced hull strength.

One skill, that practically everyone has, neutralizes the primary benefit of cloak. Reverse Shield Polarity eliminates the alpha and gives the team a chance to organize a response.

This is a thread about subnuc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-20-2010, 07:22 AM
you feds forget, fed ships more hull more shields .....get over it.


Id take a science vessel over cloaked any day, but we dont have a science vessel, just a 2 time nerfed carrier.

snb........ all science officers have it, they all use it. Is not just klingons, I get double snb all time from feds, I dont cry cuz it is part of the game.
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