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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-21-2010, 01:09 PM
Cruisers are the ultimate multimission starship. True, some cruisers may have more gargo bays than other ships, but that's more a size issue than anything, as the Olympic Class hospital ship was a medium sized ship and could probably have some of her medical space swapped out to carry more cargo if it was needed.

If anything, it is the science ships that need more specialised missions designed for them, since there's already loads of combat for escorts and Cruisers can handle pretty much everything thrown at them.

But that's my take.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-21-2010, 01:27 PM
I do agree with the concerns of the opening poster.

I also think there is a way to satisfy everyone in the crowd.

For example, we've had the supernova idea crop up, yes? If a supernova threatens a planet, a vessel in this situation could have certain means of helping.

A cruiser would come by and assist in the evacuation, making the evacuee count go down faster vs a time limit.

A science vessel could go and try to do sciency stuff to the sun that threatens to go supernova, thus delaying that reaction and increasing the time limit. They could go and configure shield arrays that would protect the planet from the radiation first released by the trigger-point of the supernova.

An escort could patrol the area and police things to make sure the evacuation is done in good order. If things go out of line, or other factions take advantage of that weakness (Orion slavers swooping in to seize civilian transports, for example), the escorts are there as fast-reponse units to resolve things. Alternatively, if we want to go non-violent, the escorts could be used to escort transports and blast any asteroids in the way which might slow down the evacuation.

I'm not claiming the ideas are perfect, but there are ways to use the same mission environment to catter to more than one playstyle and preference... and give problems multiple ways to be solved. Solo, a player might be able to struggle and get things done and be more capable at doing faster the one strength his ship can support. With multiple players involved in the same mission, an organized effort could have that mission resolve itself much more smoothly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoberraz View Post
I do agree with the concerns of the opening poster.

I also think there is a way to satisfy everyone in the crowd.

For example, we've had the supernova idea crop up, yes? If a supernova threatens a planet, a vessel in this situation could have certain means of helping.

A cruiser would come by and assist in the evacuation, making the evacuee count go down faster vs a time limit.

A science vessel could go and try to do sciency stuff to the sun that threatens to go supernova, thus delaying that reaction and increasing the time limit. They could go and configure shield arrays that would protect the planet from the radiation first released by the trigger-point of the supernova.

An escort could patrol the area and police things to make sure the evacuation is done in good order. If things go out of line, or other factions take advantage of that weakness (Orion slavers swooping in to seize civilian transports, for example), the escorts are there as fast-reponse units to resolve things. Alternatively, if we want to go non-violent, the escorts could be used to escort transports and blast any asteroids in the way which might slow down the evacuation.
Missions like this would be awesome, no doubt about it. Would be cool to have a few missions that required a certain combination of classes to be in the group. Though my faith that Cryptic could do a good job of making something along these lines is nil.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
03-21-2010, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darmak
Wow, you didn't read (or comprehend) anything the OP wrote at all but you chose to post anyways! ballsy!
Congratulations, here is a golfclap for you.
/golfclap
dude! i want a golfcap! o.O



in anycase, true, pve all ships are/missions do seem to be equal but it's the little things that count... cruisers can take more dmg, and sciences can do more special abilitys.
also i'm sure that transport and reasearch missions will becoming out soon. i know i've done a few patrol missions where i had to fly around a planet checking anomolys, no enimys in sight for miles

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOpposite View Post
Missions like this would be awesome, no doubt about it. Would be cool to have a few missions that required a certain combination of classes to be in the group. Though my faith that Cryptic could do a good job of making something along these lines is nil.
-oough cough FUTURE FLEET MISSIONS cough cough-
cryptic has already set the building blocks for it, they are just still in the development state of it. i mean the game is only what 2 months old? at most? we can't exspect cryptic to perform gaming miracles over night =/
look at how long CoH has been running and they are still making tons of new content for it( "going rogue" for example)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-21-2010, 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by singular1ty View Post
...fact...
You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-21-2010, 02:23 PM
I think the OP was making the point that as concerns all solo content in game to date an escort class ship is better suited than anything else and the supposed abilities of cruisers and science ships are pointless and in some cases are a complete pain in the backside. At least that's the way I read it and it conforms to thoughts I've been having.

I started with a tactical officer on an escort and made it to RA5, since then I've taken an engineer/cruiser and a science officer/science ship all the way to RA5 as well and many times on my second two characters I've thought "this was MUCH easier/faster on my escort".

On my tact officer I begin every combat encounter by getting within 9km and shutting down the sensors of the opposing ship and then opening up with cannons until shields are almost down then dumping a high yield torpedo volley. Lather, rinse, repeat. Invariably the npc is dead before it even comes out of sensor shut down. I've gotten to the point that I actually wait for them to fire the first shot before I shut down their targeting sensors because then at least they react to my presence and maneouver a bit, if I shut them down before they open fire they just sit there and wait to die.

The only time I ever encounter more than 1 ship at a time is when it's 3 frigates and I might actually have to click an engineering officer skill to buff up my shields.

I try the same basic strategy in my cruiser and science ship and it takes forever, I've tried some variations but the bottom line for me is it's just faster/easier in an escort and when the respec goes live I'm going to switch all of my characters to escorts. Actually I'm going to try that on tribble when I get done here and see how it goes.

Of course Deep Space Encounters involve significant differences but really what I have seen most in those on my cruiser and science ship is escorts following around and picking things off. In a team that's great, in free-for-all it's a huge annoyance for low dps ships.

What I think STO needs long term is separate mission arcs for each of the three ship types and probably each of the three classes, or possible the same overall arc that branches depending on what you're flying at the time. It seems to me that the current state of affairs points back to the capless design where there wouldn't be a penalty for using any type of ship at least at endgame because you'd have points spread out in all types.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-21-2010, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOpposite View Post
Missions like this would be awesome, no doubt about it. Would be cool to have a few missions that required a certain combination of classes to be in the group. Though my faith that Cryptic could do a good job of making something along these lines is nil.
The idea is to use the least game assets to satisfy as many players as possible.

For example, you remember that P'Jem mission? The one people got angry over that because they didn't have much of a choice but to fight through klingons?

Consider this:

(P'Jem system map) Upon entry in system, klingons accost the player with claims that the ambassador they have onboard is an undine.
  • Player chooses to ignore klingons and defeats the klingon warships around so to be able to safely beam down.
    • (P'Jem ground map) Player beams on the ground and has klingon opposition in the way. The player fights through to it get to the temple, survives three waves of klingons once at the temple, fights the Undine imposter as he beams down, pursues the Imposter through two more groups of klingons but fail to catch him before he beams up. The away team beams up to confront the Undine ship.
      • (P'Jem system map) Player must survive battle against Undine Dreadnought until Federation reinforcements arrive. Once the reinforcements arrive, the mission concludes with the destruction of the Undine ship.
  • Player agrees to verify the Klingons' claims and has the ambassador called down to sickbay. The Undine imposter makes a break for it and manages to beam down to P'Jem.
    • (P'Jem ground map) Player pursues the Undine downplanet, but then so do the klingons. The imposter looking like a vulcan, the klingons remain a threat to the vulcan monks and the player needs to fight his way up to secure the Temple from them. Player stumbles into the Undine imposter (whom they do recognize) and fight him before he makes a break for it. Player engages in pursuit, fights through 2 groups of klingons but then lose the imposter as he beams out. The away team beams up to confront the Undine ship.
      • (P'Jem system map) 3 bird of prey and 1 K't'inga are engaged against the Undine Dreadnought (Klingon ships are lower rank/lower level, so of limited threat against the dreadnought) and there is a countdown before federation reinforcements will warp in to assist. The player must survive until reinforcements come in, at which point the mission is nearly resolved. Surviving Klingon ships then have a standoff with the federation ships.
        • If insulted/contronted, or refused right to sharing the info on the salvage, they fight the player and his allies.
        • If the player offers to share findings on the wreckage and then asks the Klingon to withdraw from Federation space, the Klingons comply (for now - they got what they wanted anyhow).

See what I did there? The environments the Devs created all end up being used - space or ground. The confrontation in space can be either fought out or skip through dialog. The ground portion is practically identical, with slightly different text cues. The space conclusion ends up with the same engagement, but with another variable thrown in if the player chose to be more diplomatic in the beginning - the player even gets the option to kick the klingons in the teeth at the end, or to be nice and diplomatic.

Nothing the Devs made is wasted. The mission design is more mutable, but goes through the same steps to be resolved... but the player ends up feeling he had the illusion of a choice. That's a big difference. In the event that the mission is tackled by multiple players, the pivotal choices could be based either on the first player to choose, it could go to the team leader (within a countdown - after that the choice would go to anyone else that clicked first) or it could be a team consensus just like the need/greed system for loot.

If the people Cryptic has on STO can understand that and apply those nuances, it would really bring up gameplay a notch. Not to mention, at the very worst, it's just some extra scripting work with some logic IF/OR parameters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-21-2010, 03:19 PM
i dont think so...

i had enough fun with my Cruisers, i dont want extra missions for them.

i rather have more difficult missions for Escorts, or take the blinding skill away from Escorts and increase front shield strength by 50%


Maybe if you do Escort first you think the other stuff takes to long / is to hard.

but doing it the other way arround... yeah the Escort has good firepower and can turn fast but it is hard to stay alive if there are multiple ships, problem is just that plenty missions have only one big guy at the end waiting for you and maybe a few mobs with 3 medium ships and they all die fast. especially if you blind them first.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-21-2010, 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeRavi
What makes you think this? Did you make it up?
DeRavi
No, he read it from the devs postings about future additions to STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
03-21-2010, 03:37 PM
Also branching quests don't work out well in MMOs. Mainly because everyone is "playing" the same story so all events for all players must proceed in the same order or, well... time issues result.
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