Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
03-23-2010, 08:55 AM
Loved all but this: "[SWG has] changed radically, and much for the better"

Really? Really? NGE? Meh.


The rest?

Very cool.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
03-23-2010, 09:05 AM
I always enjoy hearing things casually from the developer's mouth. It seems very much in line with what I've heard from other people in the industry say as well.

No one likes the idea of paying to play test. When you look at WoW (as it is now... heck even at it's launch)... there was a *lot* there. Same goes with something like SWG (if you look at all of the stuff the current game has in it)... and at the end of the day we can always make it sound small.

"Well, come on. It's only 130 to 150 quests if you play through all classes and options. And there are only 12 dungeons to do." ~ This has been a simulated generic mmo exaggerated statement.

And I think that's what people look at. Is it done in the sense that there are these "endless" hours of play to it at launch? And people forget it took many patches to get to "x" point. I am not in any way saying STO is a hallmark... I think even Jack said that best with the WoW as a pinnacle example. But what it has is a pretty good framework to build upon.

Suffice it to say I liked this interview and enjoyed Jack's statements and incite. But it kind of made me think about Smedly and the flack that guy gets for SWG.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
03-23-2010, 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticFringer View Post
.... But it kind of made me think about Smedly and the flack that guy gets for SWG.
haven't listened to the podcast yet as I'm at work (and it's verbosity) but I had to interject, Smedly deserves every iota of the flack he gets for the Mickey Mouse cartoon he transformed SWG into.

Another poster also hit on something fundamental regarding the lack of persistancy that's always bothered me, the lack of an MMO feel. I use SWG again as it's prime example, if I put "this" "there", then there it stayed, thus giving the individual some control on their environment, affecting them and any others who encountered it.. hell even if I missed and sprayed up the wall playing Halo, the effect remained for a time.

I'm not planning to bail yet as I think there's still a lot of potential. But yes, the fact that Jack views the latter patches of SWG as improvements, and instancing as a good thing really concern me.

Am I the only one really annoyed seeing "Memory Alpha" maps on exploration missions?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
03-23-2010, 01:55 PM
Yeah the lack of Persistence bothers me a lot. Ive played several MMOs in the past Star Wars Galaxies, Eve Online and Lord of the Rings, every single one of them made you feel that the world/galaxy still existed even when you where not playing, like you said about SWG, you could plonk a harvester or house etc down in the middle of the desert and then bugger off quite happy in the knowledge that when you come back days later it would still be there. you had a feeling that when you where at work or sleeping that the world still existed somewhere and was ticking along without you. There is none of that feeling here.

I really couldnt believe my ears when he said SWG got better towards the end, when the exact opposite it true, seriously, this guy works in the MMO business and he thinks SWG is better post CU and NGE, seriously mate, take your finger out of where ever it is and put it on the pulse, google "Star Wars Galaxies NGE" and you will find thread after thread using it as an example of how to royally screw up a damn near perfect game.

Im a lifer here at STO and im gonna stick with it with the hopes that it will improve but if the guy at the helm cites the NGE as good business practice then im really afraid that he is gonna steer this ship towards the rocks. If anything this game would benefit if it modelled itself more closely to pre-NGE SWG, especially in regards to Skill Trees, Crafting, World Persistence and Housing.

Oh and by the way an OPTIONAL Death Penalty completely defeats the object, we wanted the DP to give us a bit of game, a bit of tension, how much tension will there be if you can switch it off. Seriously mate, get a clue!

Im sorry about the rant but im furious, ive defended this game left right and centre, i've told those who where thinking of leaving to stick around as it will improve over time, "they will make it work", "its early days" etc. Hearing the above actually made me feel embarrassed for not only saying those things but for being a lifetime subscriber.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
03-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie0854
Oh and by the way an OPTIONAL Death Penalty completely defeats the object, we wanted the DP to give us a bit of game, a bit of tension, how much tension will there be if you can switch it off. Seriously mate, get a clue!.
No you wanted the death penalty and a few others too but allot don't, why should we have to put up with it, just because you say we should have too?.

Its been put in as optional to please everybody, if you want to waste time sitting there or flying to a starbase then feel free but this game especially raids have no room for it, and i can guarantee that those who screamed for it wont use it just because they have the option to turn it off, people like you want it forced onto others, what give you the right to say what should be forced onto people.

and great pod-cast, jack certainly shined and increased his popularity in my book
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
03-23-2010, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brodie0854
Yeah the lack of Persistence bothers me a lot. Ive played several MMOs in the past...

Oh and by the way an OPTIONAL Death Penalty completely defeats the object, we wanted the DP to give us a bit of game, a bit of tension, how much tension will there be if you can switch it off...
I've also played several MMOs and not all of them have Persistence. Doesn't really bother me, player progression means more to some than others.

Persistence in contested "war zones" I think I could like, there'd be a reason to build something and defend it. You build a POS in EVE, someone can knock it down, even High Sec POS -- though they are a bore to destroy-- can be destroyed.

If you need a DP to have "a bit of game, a bit of tension" then keep the DP on at all times. Perhaps, in PVP maps have it mandatory but if someone doesn't want to have it in PVE then it won't bother me. Depending on how the DP works, I may run it in PVE myself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
03-23-2010, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemhook View Post
No you wanted the death penalty and a few others too but allot don't, why should we have to put up with it, just because you say we should have too?.

Its been put in as optional to please everybody, if you want to waste time sitting there or flying to a starbase then feel free but this game especially raids have no room for it, and i can guarantee that those who screamed for it wont use it just because they have the option to turn it off, people like you want it forced onto others, what give you the right to say what should be forced onto people.

and great pod-cast, jack certainly shined and increased his popularity in my book
Ok i get your point but there are ways of doing it, and having an option that you set to on or off is riduclous, like many people including myself have mentioned on numerous occasions is have it the way it is now but the rewards are increased if you do it without dying. That way everyone is happy as there is no death penalty, but there is an incentive not to die.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
03-23-2010, 03:20 PM
I try not to die as much as possible and if people on my team mess up too many times and don't learn then there gone, i don't like the idea of being penalised because stupid people cant learn strategy, the only thing i would agree to that would be placed for everybody is armour and weapon decay, that to me is acceptable to my limits of tolerance,

Maybe running back to your body in an instance as a ghost and having to res but that would mean increasing the range of the resurrection in case there was one person to far into the mobs, as for space i have no desire to fly back to a star-base or wait 2-3 minutes for my power to recharge or buy more crew, as he admitted in the pod cast its there to make you spend more time on the game rather that making sure fun alone doesn't keep you playing then the DP will keep you playing longer.

As for when the difficulty slider comes in there will allot of people who wanted DP to suddenly change there stance on it when it starts to annoy them when they just wanna get stuff done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
03-23-2010, 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nemhook View Post
I try not to die as much as possible and if people on my team mess up too many times and don't learn then there gone, i don't like the idea of being penalised because stupid people cant learn strategy, the only thing i would agree to that would be placed for everybody is armour and weapon decay, that to me is acceptable to my limits of tolerance.
Seriously having a bonus for not dying, how does that penalise you, if you die you get the same as you do now, if you dont you get a little extra, simple.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
03-23-2010, 03:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunari View Post
I've also played several MMOs and not all of them have Persistence.
That is kind of the point we/I are trying to make. Without the persistence it isn't an MMO.

If you go all the way back to the 'first' pc MMO, Ultima Online, there is an expectation that the MMO moniker brings with it.

In recent years the Development/Publishing companies have tried to hop on the MMO band wagon without actually doing what it takes to make an MMO. Hence, we get these multiplayer games, tacked together by instances trying to call themselves an MMO and when they flop they act all surprise that it failed.

The reason WoW is such a successful MMO is because it IS an MMO in a market where the new stuff coming out is nothing more than multiplayer games with the MMO tacked on for box appeal/subscription charges.

Look at the 'MMO' games that have released since WoW. Now compare their popularity with how closely they actually stayed to the true MMO model. I'd bet you would see a fairly consistent correlation. All of them go through a Boom/Bust at release but then settle down with the games that fall away from the true MMO environment settling lower.

Publishers know all of this already, if they don't then they are idiots if I can see it before they can. You can make your own conclusion why they keep putting out the sudo-MMOs.
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