Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
03-24-2010, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by immagikman01 View Post
Didnt bother to read all the other posts, but in answer to the OP, regardless of PvP or non-PvP....the basic tactic of laying in wait and ambushing an opponent is not honorable. A True Klingon or someone who wants to RP one, would find honor in measuring himself against his opponent, it does not gain him honor to take his opponent unaware or at less than his normal fitness level. To gain honor you must face opponents who are equal to or stronger than your self. To fight a lesser foe is a loss of honor. You may subjugate lesser races but you gain no honor in it, and in fact will give the lesser race Honor if they valiantly resist. There is no Dishonor in losing, there is only dishonor in trying to cheat to gain honor.

This is NOT a commentary on the Games PvP or mechanics or reality that necessitates Klingon Cloaking. Klingons were NEVER intended to have Cloaking technology in Gene Roddenberrys plan, however in the early 80's a script leak caused a late stage replacement of Romulans with Klingons instead...it was too late to do rewrites so they just plugged in Klingon where it said Romulan. Im reciting this stuff from memory from the time, so don't have the exact details but I do know that is what whent down in the real world, Klingons got Cloaks by a fluke, not because it is honorable to ambush your foes.
Under Roddenberry's watch, the Klingons used Cloaks in TMP-era movies as well as the later TNG series (until he died). What's done is done, there's no "should have, would have, could have." The fact remains, the founder of Star Trek enabled the Klingons to have Cloaks. Deal with it.

As far as the real Klingons not using Cloaks because it's dishonorable, **BS**. Great examples abound in DS9's entire Dominion War story arc of the Klingons heavily utilizing Cloaking technology by any ship captain that had one. Gowron, Martok for example were major figures in the Empire and had no qualms about sending fleets cloaked. Even Worf, who many consider "honorable" served several times on Klingon vessels, and made no protest whatsoever, private to the captain or in public, about the order to use Cloaks.

DS9's entire Dominion War story arc is an excellent example of the Klingons fighting a war.
- It wasn't just one episode or a few stringed together. It encompassed several seasons.
- You get to see many characters involved in the war, not just Worf and Martok.
- You get to see the Klingons victorious and defeated during the ever flowing fortunes of war.
- You get to see the Klingons shoulder the entire war effort when the Breen arrived with technology to ravage the allied starfleets... except for the Klingons. The Klingons suffered HEAVY casualties, because their ships were the only ones not affected by Breen tech.
- In short, you saw so many different things about the Klingons.

And none... absolutely NO reference has been made in DS9, even TNG which had many Klingon-themed story arcs, about the Klingons frowning down on Cloaking technology as a tool in winning a fight. Not even ANY of the Star Trek movies have shown any sort of thinking like that in the Klingons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
03-24-2010, 11:04 PM
Cloak is simply creating tactical surprise. Klingon is a warrior culture. Taking an enemy from ambush is niether honorable or dishonorable. It simply has nothing what so ever to do with honor.

An honorable act for a Klingon is any act preformed from a place of right action. More often then not its not a action at all but a decision. Do "I" do this or do "I" not do this? A Warrior knows in his/her heart what is right and what is wrong. Chosing to act from right action is honorable. Choosing to act from wrong action is dishonorable. It was a belived in a certain terran culture that "Honor is as light as a feather, but duty as heavy as a mountain." A Klingon warrior is also a soldier and must obey duty even when the requirements of duty require dishonorble action. Klingons take this very seriously. Using a cloak is a battle tactic. How a cloak is used is governed by the concept of honor. Using it against a enemy in battle is of no concern to the honorable Klingon warrior. Using it to sulk about to gather intelligence in not considered dishonorable either. Using it to bypass defending starships to ultimatly bombard a planet from space can be considered dishonorable.. striking like a thief in the night to assisinate a planet would be wrong, and an action no true warrior would contenence. But as a tool to allow one to strike at an enemy ship from an unexpected direction is well within the practices of warfare in the current age. Would a federation commander think twice about strikeing enemies of the Federation from behind the concelement of an asteroid, moon, or planets? Of course not. The Empire is powerfull, but constantly moving Asteroids, moons, and planets to convenient locations to create a tactical ambush is somewhat wastefull of resources.


Niether the Federation nor any of its client states ever developed cloaking technology and the federation stopped all reserch into cloaking technology by treaty dating from before the Dominion war. The single sole exception being the U.S.S. Defiant stationed out of DS-9. The Defiants cloak was provided by the Romulans for special consideration and under special circumstances. The Federation does not have cloaking technology and has disavowed all research into the technology. They have how ever devoted a great deal of resources and technology into detecting cloaked ships at the tractical, operational, and stratigic levels of space combat.

Federation hypocracy at work again.. You have the largest and most capable ships, and some of the most advanced technology in the known universe even though there are few true warriors cultures in the Federation.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............

I'm allready quite sick of arguments about Klingon cloaking. The Fed players have access to better gear then the Klingon has availible as the level up through PvE play. Far better gear. And they have DEDICATED science ships which are typically very well balanced vessles with a goodly number of systems and often times as good as or better a turn rate as fed escort class ships. WIth better hull strength, and more availible power. The Klingons simply have nothing comparable. The few advantages Klingons have are over all better turn rates, and a superb turn rate in BOP class ships. But those same ships give up other capabilities to get that magnificent turn rate. First of they have fewer bridge officer positions. That the ones they have are "universal" slots doesn't really address the lessened capability of this ship type. It certainly doesn't make them "Better" then fed ships... just different. Fed escort tier for tier are more capable ships. The Klingon just has to play smarter. Klingon Battle cruisers have better turn rates then Fed Cruisers and may mount cannons, but have less power and are somewhat more fragile once the shields go down. (somewhat? It takes 4 unaugumented quantum torpedos to crack a K'tinga..It takes 6-7 to take out a federation t-3 cruiser... this HAS been tested!..unagumented means the captain has no special abilities nor does the firing ship mount any consoles that agument torpedo damage.. testing was done against a ship mounting no shields.) ...

If you can't develop tactics for dealing with cloaking ships then don't PvP with Klingons. Personally I never worry about what the other guys has. I worry about what I have and wringing every last bit of use out of it..

Personally if you want to take cloaks away from the Klingons, I'm good with that. Just make it fair and get rid of the Fed science ships, and no fed ship may mount anything other then Phasers ..no cannons.. and Photon/Quantum/transphasic torpedo's only. AFter all, Fed still have the bigger ships.

(tpift!)

Khemaraa sends.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
03-25-2010, 02:22 AM
All i can say is like Worf said in DS9.

There is nothing more honorable than victory.

Cloak helps them achieve victory.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
03-25-2010, 04:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztak
Let me ask you. If this were real life and not a video game, what would you do?
survival of the fittest, and/or strongest.

All that honor and dishonor, forget that crap, this isn't some fairy tale in lala land, like samurais, or knights, this is War.

In all honesty it is agame, and who ever takes advantage of the situation "wins"


Same thing IRL. think wars are fair....think because the enemy is going to sling mud in our face, we're going to sling mud back...heck no, we're going to launch boulders right onto their homes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
03-25-2010, 01:58 PM
RP wise? Yes.

PvP Wise : No.

Like someone said before, when you set foot in the PvP zones, you will be ATTACKED. There is no choice about it. If he was a newbie, I might tell him to leave if he didn't know any better. But, dying once won't hurt anybody.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
03-27-2010, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztak
Let me ask you. If this were real life and not a video game, what would you do?
Since there is a war going on, I would have no problem with ambushing the enemy with such tactics.



My Orion captain is out to destroy her foes. Not play dueling pistols at 20 paces.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
03-27-2010, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synacus View Post
I seen 10 fedration players farm 2 fed players today who were on my team , I was able to stealth impulse by but I just watched as they farmed thier OWN ppl for 15 some mins......Tell me again about Honor.
Had this happen to me today, I was red, had 3 - 4 fed ships attacking. Then see a Klingon BOP(a friend) decloak and unload on the Fed players attacking me. It was rather funny watching the Fed ships explode. After that today, I'll be making a Klingon Character.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
03-27-2010, 08:26 PM
Destroying enemy assets in a time of war, maximizing your chance of success and minimizing your chance of loss is more than honorable, its basic military strategy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
03-27-2010, 08:45 PM
I have many secrets about killing feds as I've come quite good at doing it all because of borg hunt. Mind you that it took practice and a lot of research and I owe all my kills to HISTORY. Thank God for the History Channel.

Psychological warfare is very powerful and I use it to get the upper hand. I know my ship is not powerful enough to take on a fed cruiser head to head 1v1 and it was never meant for that in battle. If you look at the specs it doesn't even remotely compare to a cruiser so surprise is really the ONLY advantage we have. Cloaking while being attacked if not done soon enough is lethal so it's a gamble.

I do NOT flame individuals or groups but will use the text area as a tactic to gain the advantage and will use it to gain information about your tactics. As Vietnam's Hanoi Rose proved this to be a powerful tactic I do to.

Feds do have many things at their fingertips to detect cloaked ships and countermeasures to all of the things I use and have beaten me even when almost dead so to say we are stronger and better off because we can cloak when in battle is plain old silly and bluntly shows a lack of willing to figure out how to counter the other players tactics.

I am a Commander in KDF but a RA5 on fed side so I've been on both sides of the coin and know that no matter how smart one is and no matter how smart I am there is ALWAYS someone out there smarter than I.

So what does all this mean? I think it is perfectly Honorable to use battle cloak or any cloak as a tactic just as ANY military around the world use it if they had it at their fingertips. I find flaming and picking on ONE individual intentionally to be dishonorable. Mind you choosing a name of a ship of someone or something that is controversial makes you a target and I find that to be Honorable to help that person realize he/she may have their view but imposing it on others will only end in DEATH and a 9 second reset before death comes again.

Best wishes to all even feds as I'll see you in battle on-line and I will not shed a single tear for the death of your player as I know in good conscience that the reset button is only 9 seconds away not only for me but for you too.

James
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60 Hey..
03-27-2010, 08:54 PM
Its all good and adds to the fun.... Kind of like... the other PvP ground where you can 1 on 1

So drop on by =) might as well bring the family for some extra level of fun.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:32 AM.