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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
03-29-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xygenthief View Post
Ummmm.....

It looks like you spent an awful lot of time writing your response so I say thank you for contributing. However, if you would have taken a fraction of the time you spent writing your response and applied that to reading the thread you would have realised that I wasn't suggesting a BoP nerf.

I could go into detail and take quotes from my own posts to discount EVERYTHING in your post. But that's simply too much work, especually since you didn't even take the time to READ in the first place.

So feel free to respond to this post if you like, though your time and effort would be better spent reading and editing your original post.

Cheers!
Well,

As you can see by how some have responded to your post maybe its you who are unclear (in a good way). As I did read your first post I didn't quite understand where you were going so I tried to give feedback based on whether you were addressing PvE issues or PvP issues. At one point you mentioned what seemed to be PvE ideas then you drifted around so ....

What I didn't do is that I did a KDF knee jerk and saw the original post but didn't see your one farther down mentioning you had a KDF character. If I had seen that I would have changed my response a bit.

In any event you will find the community here open but the nerf battle cry from the Fed side (not necessarily you) makes many suspect.

Cheers! : )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
03-29-2010, 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwlightTemple
As you can see by how some have responded to your post maybe its you who are unclear (in a good way).
I am glad you took the time to re-read the thread.

And you are right my original post did confuse a few. Especially with the mention of photonic fleet. I hope I did a fair job of clearing things up for those who didn't understand fully though.

I didn't really focus on either PvP or PvE since I think the change/addition would benefit both.

Thanks again for the contribution!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
03-29-2010, 01:57 PM
The Idea is creative and has merits. However, as pointed out the AI can not ever compensate for a player. Like photonic fleet; it's a gimic item which most people ignore unless they are sipping coffee and smoking a cig while auto targetting..

It kinda reminds me of mirror self.. which works great till you know which one is the real player.
Besides i wouldn't be in the mood for a scramble sensor to have myselves attack myself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14 *sigh*
03-29-2010, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostish
The Idea is creative and has merits. However, as pointed out the AI can not ever compensate for a player. Like photonic fleet; it's a gimic item which most people ignore unless they are sipping coffee and smoking a cig while auto targetting..

It kinda reminds me of mirror self.. which works great till you know which one is the real player.
Besides i wouldn't be in the mood for a scramble sensor to have myselves attack myself.
What AI? My follow up post should have cleared that up for you...

No AI, forget I mentioned photonic fleet. Just 1 ship replicated 2 times to fly in formation with you. You lose one your stats are cut by 1/3. You start off with more damage potential so it evens out.

My apologies to everyone for using the photonic fleet reference!!!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
03-29-2010, 02:26 PM
I don't like this idea at all.
Maybe the Empire improved their BoPs so that they are full-fledged and strong battleships.
I want my BoP to be strong!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
03-29-2010, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0xygenthief View Post
In the Star Trek Universe as we all know and love BoPs are no match for any fedration ship one on one. In any episode showcasing a BoP as an effective combattant it was part of a battle group of other BoPs.

In STO a BoP with the right captain could defeat any fed ship of the same level with the proper loadout. I would expect this to be true of a fed escort whose shields and hull strength should be much more than they are in game. But a BoP is supposed to be the pawns of the empire's fleet, expendable and geared only towards alpha strike.

So my suggestion/idea is to make each BoP weaker than it is by 1/3. Inversely make it so that your single BoP exists on the battlefield as 3 separate ships, sort of like a photonic fleet only the ships fly information with you at all times. When you hit the space bar all three ships fire simultaneously, albeit at a 1/3 normal rate. This way, when you lose one of your BoPs your DPS, max hull strength, and max shields are all reduced by 1/3.

At the same time make the BoP officer loadout more simplified. Only basic engineering and science abilities while offering multiple high level tactical abilities/officers.

Give the BoP superior DPS (with all 3 flying) to any other class on either side. And offer up 2x to forward shileds while taking the shield power from the sides and rear.

I would play the hell out of a BoP if this were in effect! There would be no concern for survivability in a BoP anymore. It would be "today is a good day to die" every time the ship decloaked! Even as a fed player I would prefer this. The ability to criple a BoP DPS would be a very likable idea. It would force even more strategic gameplay (i.e. as fed do you finish off the last BoP for the point making it so he can respawn, or as the Klingon do I self destruct to get my DPS back up again but force my team to take a point loss).

I think this would be an amazing change!

Edit: when reading the part about the photonic fleet please keep in mind I am not suggesting we use the photonic fleet AI by any means. I simply envisioned 2 other BoPs flying in formation with me firing simultaneously when I do etc...
The information you have gotten is really really bad.....are you somehow thinking that the outcasted duras sisters who could only get thier hands on a 200 year old BoP is how all BoP's are????

Plz Watch Star Trek 3....where lord kurge shot and killed a Sci-ship in one single shot.Than pretty much almost killled off the enterpize if not for sulu and kirk spotting the BoP before it decloaked.

You somehow think a race that has been warping around the universe while humans were still apes and tossin poo at each other is weak?Yes all warrior races must be weaker tech wise , poor spartains , romans , and americans if only they put more into thier miltary budgets....oh wait....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
03-30-2010, 01:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Synacus View Post
The information you have gotten is really really bad.....are you somehow thinking that the outcasted duras sisters who could only get thier hands on a 200 year old BoP is how all BoP's are????

Plz Watch Star Trek 3....where lord kurge shot and killed a Sci-ship in one single shot.Than pretty much almost killled off the enterpize if not for sulu and kirk spotting the BoP before it decloaked.

You somehow think a race that has been warping around the universe while humans were still apes and tossin poo at each other is weak?Yes all warrior races must be weaker tech wise , poor spartains , romans , and americans if only they put more into thier miltary budgets....oh wait....
That sounds kinda brutal.
It is correct that the BoP in St3 fried to Grissom, which was a flying lab with no real defenses.
It is also correct that Kruge's BoP crippled the Enterprise...because her sheilds were down, she wasn't in prime condition and he took out the computer control.
Kruge himself said "they outgun me 10 to 1".
There is also the minor fact that the BoP in St6 fired...umm how many torps into the Enterprise befor the shields collapsed? 6? 10?
Of course Chang would have made a lot more damage with his disruptors AND his torps but then the Enterprise could have responded in kind...
So the basic (small) BoP from that era is pretty weak by the standards from that era and certainly not that great during the TNG era.
At least when we compare it with full-blown cruisers.
For a scoutship it is pretty impressive.
It was roughly comparable to a Dominion Fighter which is a lot smaller (68 compared to 111 meters).
HOWEVER therefore it is represented in this game as a T1 ship.
The ship that has the fewest hitpoints and probaly the weakes shiels of all playerships aside from the runabout.
So I can live with the idea that the Klingons built totally new ships which have a few similarities to the old B'rel (I mean form follows function and the BoP is atmospheric-capable, not like the controlled landing of the Intrepid but real combat-maneuverability).
After all they still have the weakest hull of all the ships in their respective tier.


So to sum it up the idea is interesting but probably not that easy to implement.
Particulraly in crowded places like asteroid fields you escrots might get stuck too easily.
Or they would simply PHASE through the obstackles which would probably look rather stupid...
I might want to give it try it someday if it works and if it becomes a choice.
It could be possible to either buy a T2 BoP or a squad of 2 B'rels, one under you control, one as your escort.
Then either buy a T3 BoP or 3 B'rels etc.
So as a choice it could be intersting, but I would not want it to replace the system currently in place.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
03-30-2010, 03:00 AM
Great, make BoP 1/3 weaker and take power away from the player. Do you even realize what you are suggesting ? BoP at BG5 level packs 28k hull, you want to remove 9k and make me dependent on two NPC controlled ships for DPS ? Really ?

21k hull+5k shields and 2 NPC BoPs to follow me around ? Do all 3 get 21k hulls or we share that too ? 7k hull a pop ? How will all 3 align to fire their DHCs at the federation cruise that is turning ?

Unless I am badly missing something in your writing, your ideas are comming from the RPer/trekkie perspective and not a serious PvPer. Your concept would be nice in a strategy game, where positioning and tactics were important, as well as staying true to Star Trek lore. In STO your ideas simply don't work and can't be implimented.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
03-30-2010, 05:30 AM
I think the real problem is that it's a lot of technical effort that I am not sure really pays off from a gameplay perspective.

I might revise this thought if there are plans to allow players to run fighter groups (Peregrime, Runabouts or something similar), and if they still work seriously onl multi-vector assault ships and saucer seperation.

I am still not convinced, even with that - the real question is - what does it add to the gameplay? Can it be controlled sensibly by the players? Is all the effort worth it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20 Well, I tried...
03-30-2010, 07:15 AM
It would seem this is not a good idea after all. Two pages of replys and only one person stating they would like to try it out.

Meh..

It just struck me as odd that in PvE missions where you have to take out a group of enemies you have your standard battleship, escort, and science vessels as well as lower tier escorts in groups of three. I thought, why not make that an option for us as well? And wondered how well such a scenario would play out in PvP? I mean, in PvE it takes me the same time, if not more to down three lesser ships than it does to down a battleship after all...

I wouldn't see it as a nerf considering the combined hull strength, sheild strength, and weapons damage could be set to 33% or more above norms for any ship at your level.

I just can't believe I am pretty much alone in thinking this would be fun..
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