Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Maxing skills at 9 - should I?
03-30-2010, 06:34 AM
Hello,

So as I've leveled up (at Captain 7 on my Fed and Commander 4 (I think) on my Kling), I've maxed certain skills at 9 (based on my playstyle).

Now recently, it has come to my attention (via the forums and in game) that taking a skill past 7 is pointless. Being that I am not a min/max kinda guy, I'm looking for thoughts on this. I actually enjoy my current setup, but if in the long run, having a bunch of skills at 9 is pointless, I may as well use my free respec that I have now and put those extra skill points else where.

Could I get some opinions on this?

Cheers,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-30-2010, 06:38 AM
Putting skills to 9 provides you with the option to train certain skills.
The penalty for going beyond 7 is also non-existant from Tier3 on.

And I think every captain got a handful of skills at 9, because if you know in which skills you gonna specialize you have spare points left you can use to further give the skills the last tweaking.


Also consider that adding 1 skillpoint into a T1 skill will aid all the following skills of this tree. While putting 1 more point into a T3+ skill will only help this once skill. so if you have a very broadskillset, for example in starship operations, putting more points into the lower tier variants might pay off.


You said you are no min/maxing guy, so don't let this bother you. This might be a problem for people sitting with the calculator in front of their PCs, but won't have much impact on you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-30-2010, 06:39 AM
check out this article ...
http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpr...s-the-numbers/

you will see that, especially in tier 1 and 2, there is not much use to put more than 7 points into it.

see the table "Stat/100SP by Skill Level" on the article.

*edit: also from this article:

Avoiding Level 8 and 9 in Tier 1 and 2 Skills

Buying level 8 or 9 in Tier 1 and 2 skills is the least efficient use of skill points on a level-by-level basis in STO, gaining you only 0.5 stat points per 100 SP spent. It also makes only a minimal difference to your stat bonuses having 9/9/9 in a skill chain gives you a total stat bonus of 100. Having 7/7/9 gives you a total stat bonus of 97 and 600 SP to spend elsewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-30-2010, 07:08 AM
Excellent. Thank you both, I appreciate the replies.

I will read that article too - looked at it at a quick glance, looks like a good and interesting read.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-30-2010, 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grifter.Treysik
Now recently, it has come to my attention (via the forums and in game) that taking a skill past 7 is pointless. Being that I am not a min/max kinda guy, I'm looking for thoughts on this. I actually enjoy my current setup, but if in the long run, having a bunch of skills at 9 is pointless, I may as well use my free respec that I have now and put those extra skill points else where.

Could I get some opinions on this?
Stopping at 7 is really the way to go for T1 and T2, both from a min/max and a non-min/max stand point, barring powers you want to be able to train your BOffs in.

For a min/maxer, you're paying 200 points per 1 point of skill, while you could get a lot more return on the points invested elsewhere, something that will most likely benefit you more.

For the non-min/maxer, it gives you more points to dabble with in whatever skill you happen to feel like, while you will not notice the missing 3 points of skill at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-30-2010, 08:18 AM
The facts in the post are true; however, the logic leaves something out. The argument over point cost alone ignores the value of skills not being equal to the player.

For example, on my Tactical/Escort character Starship Energy Weapons and Starship Cannon Weapons are extremely valuable points because they affect something that is used in every battle and a lot at that. Whereas something like Starship Beam Weapons has no value at all no matter how many points per 100 SP I get. And, even something like Starship Torpedo Weapons which I actually use is much less valuable since the relative rate I fire torpedo compared to cannons is so low. Thus, I get more benefit from a 1/2 point in Starship Energy Weapons than from 2 points Starship Torpedo Weapons, and spend my points accordingly.

The same applies to many skills. Not only could many be skipped even if they were free because of the powers you use, but many that are used still have little affect because of how often the powers are actually used. Many powers are also not fully utilized even when they are used. For example, you hit Emergency Power to Shields and they go to max and stay there with much of the powers strength just being excess to what was needed at the time anyway. More points would usually do nothing and impact only occasionally when your shields were way down or taking a real hard beating. Same thing also often aplies to something like Jam Sensors, I don't care much it lasts 17 seconds instead of 16 if the enemy usually is blown up in 15.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7 Point dispersal
03-30-2010, 06:30 PM
You made this very easy to understand being a rookie.
thx








Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt009
check out this article ...
http://theenginescannaetakeit.wordpr...s-the-numbers/

you will see that, especially in tier 1 and 2, there is not much use to put more than 7 points into it.

see the table "Stat/100SP by Skill Level" on the article.

*edit: also from this article:

Avoiding Level 8 and 9 in Tier 1 and 2 Skills

Buying level 8 or 9 in Tier 1 and 2 skills is the least efficient use of skill points on a level-by-level basis in STO, gaining you only 0.5 stat points per 100 SP spent. It also makes only a minimal difference to your stat bonuses having 9/9/9 in a skill chain gives you a total stat bonus of 100. Having 7/7/9 gives you a total stat bonus of 97 and 600 SP to spend elsewhere.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-31-2010, 01:15 PM
The Min-Maxxer in me is starting to finally get a grip on the STO skill point system. And now that I'm more and more aware of what it's all about and having read the article linked here a few times ...

I think I've come to the conclusion that ... if you are looking to min-max ... select usage of "full 9" is needed.

The article makes this point actually. It points out that using full 9's locks you into a more specialized build. (Specific weapon type for instance).

Let's use that example of weapon type.

For End-game you basically have three options right now.

Phasers
Disruptors
Antiproton

That's because the availability and point usage of Polaron is somewhat exclusive. And Tetryon is still not as popular as it could be. Especially since the effect of Disrputors is much easier to "max" and quite powerful for your entire team.

And Plasma tends to be something people use for fun moreso than effectiveness.

So when Min-Maxxing you're actually looking to lock yourself into one specific weapon energy. As well as weapon type (cannons are all the rage right now).

You want to specialize. To maximize the output of your weapon. Or else you'll notice the difference in both PVP and PVE at end-game.

So in the case of figuring out what your ship is going to fire at the hostiles ... you really are going to need to consider how effective the tradeoff is going to be by following the article's advice of having more points available for "variety."

Focused, specialized choices are what people do when picking weapon and maximizing their DPS potential.

And the article concedes that point.

So then you can start extending that idea to rest of your build. 9 points nets you the ability to train Rank III in some important abilities. Specific builds want that level of focus. So again you're going to want to specialize and focus on some 9's.

Which again the article is very much aware of. Basically, as you build your skills out, you need to keep in mind that you probably are going to want to specialize for a specific role. This becomes very apparent to players who build for PVP moerso than PVE. Because that maximization is just that tiny extra edge they can get for survival. Which counts for a lot in PVP.

A lot of what I've posted here is going to be obvious to some folks. But I still feel it needed to be posted since the skill system is pretty complex.

TLDR version: The drawback of going for 9 points in a skill is that it forces you to specialize your build. BUT ... that's usually the piont of Min-Maxxing. To maximize your potential for the minimum investment. You want that specialization when min-maxxing. And this most apparent in PVP oriented builds.

Just some food for thought.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-01-2010, 05:03 AM
a min maxer in the sence would be someone who had min waste and max gain from points invested. think i have 6 skills i have maxed all my others are around 5-7
last night after about 4 hours after respec, i more than doubled my best dmg output in a 5v5 pvp
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-01-2010, 05:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
TLDR version: The drawback of going for 9 points in a skill is that it forces you to specialize your build. BUT ... that's usually the piont of Min-Maxxing. To maximize your potential for the minimum investment. You want that specialization when min-maxxing. And this most apparent in PVP oriented builds.

Just some food for thought.
Actually, min/maxing supports specialization in ways other than a narrow focus. A PvP orientated build, for example, would find its point spending more pressed, as it would have a strong incentive to work on some ground skills as well. As such, the cost of raising a T1 or T2 skill above 7 (or above 4 for some) is even higher.

Now, a PvP build that specializes in either ground or space combat...that's a different matter. Then you've got a bit more freedom, less things demanding your points. Although such a build is probably more likely to want to maximize its main type of weapon damage. But that's most likely only 600 points, not exactly a huge amount.
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