Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-02-2010, 01:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
"To have a bunch of text block your vision the instant you kill a ship... is appalling interface design."

I completely agree, which is why this isn't actually supposed to happen.

Your "in-combat" state is supposed to persist for a few seconds after anyone has targeted you, to give time for ships to blow up, etc. before interactions or contact dialogues appear.

Can you give specific examples of maps/missions you're seeing this on, or is it always happening? Do you recall if you were actually in combat (does it still say "Condition Red" at the top of the screen) or were the contact dialogues just appearing too quickly after combat was over?
Obviously this isn't supposed to be happening, so I suggest we all bug it in-game.


Z
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-02-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
"To have a bunch of text block your vision the instant you kill a ship... is appalling interface design."

I completely agree, which is why this isn't actually supposed to happen.

Your "in-combat" state is supposed to persist for a few seconds after anyone has targeted you, to give time for ships to blow up, etc. before interactions or contact dialogues appear.

Can you give specific examples of maps/missions you're seeing this on, or is it always happening? Do you recall if you were actually in combat (does it still say "Condition Red" at the top of the screen) or were the contact dialogues just appearing too quickly after combat was over?


Constantly!

Killing the last enemy in a wave in a mission gets an instant popup. Even if his secondary (warp core?) explosion hasn't happened yet.

If I manage to sneak around and scan a computer in a ground mission while there are still enemies, popup.

Mission segment change, popup, even if I'm trying to maneuver around something -- there's usually interesting terrain at the end of mission segments!

Somebody starts to warp down to a base, different popup, but still a popup, with the same screen-blocking going on. (I'm the crafter in my group of friends, so I'm the guy who goes out to pick up anomalies in team missions! I usually get caught on this one while trying to get one last nom.)

If I'm typing a chat while the popup arrives, I can't dismiss the popup with the frantically-pressed F key, even after I finish the chat and send it, returning to control mode. I have to maneuver the mouse to someplace it probably isn't, to clear the popup.




Having thought about this quite a bit, especially recently, here are my favorite ideas:

1 - set all incoming messages in the queue that appears in the lower right, until we're ready to acknowledge them. Give us a keypress to use to pluck the next one out of the queue, so we can keep hands on controls.

2 - give the various boffs, team captains, and the hailing icon little voice bubbles. Also give a slightly different voice bubble to the transporter icon, when it's time to beam down. These voice bubbles can either relay short message whole, or can prompt for captain's attention when he's ready. Let us acknowledge messages in priority or order with a keypress, so we can keep hands-on-controls as much as possible. (good for the wrists, you know)

3 - have all popups' information be relocated to a small, dedicated chat window, which is in all ways like a normal chat window, except for the ability to click OK/more/next sorts of buttons. We can then review when we have a chance, and acknowledge "nexts" as we go to keep the pace up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-02-2010, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
"To have a bunch of text block your vision the instant you kill a ship... is appalling interface design."

I completely agree, which is why this isn't actually supposed to happen.

Your "in-combat" state is supposed to persist for a few seconds after anyone has targeted you, to give time for ships to blow up, etc. before interactions or contact dialogues appear.

Can you give specific examples of maps/missions you're seeing this on, or is it always happening? Do you recall if you were actually in combat (does it still say "Condition Red" at the top of the screen) or were the contact dialogues just appearing too quickly after combat was over?
Are you kidding me?

Look, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a jerk, I'm really not, but seriously? Do you even play Star Trek Online?

Every time I warp into a Deep Space Encounter I'm being shot at while that window conveniently pops up blocking my view. In other missions I warp in, I'm reading the story in the window and before I'm done I'm taking enemy fire. Because of this I have been unable to completely read many of the stories.

During other missions that window pops up DURING COMBAT. That's right. Right in the middle of combat, like when I get too close to the base I'm supposed to beaming down to. Or when I reach any other objective someone hails me often during combat and often times I have to hit that X multiple times just to convince the window that I really want it to close.

It doesn't happen in every mission, but I'd say that window popping up right before/in the middle of combat happens in probably 50% of the missions I've played. It's that big a problem.

This happens on ground missions too, but it doesn't seem to interrupt combat nearly as often as it does in space encounters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-02-2010, 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven

Can you give specific examples of maps/missions you're seeing this on, or is it always happening? Do you recall if you were actually in combat (does it still say "Condition Red" at the top of the screen) or were the contact dialogues just appearing too quickly after combat was over?
The one I find this happening on the most is the 'secure system' missions where you have to defend a disabled ship from several waves of attackers. Basically, every time you kill a wave, the BO spams you as SOON as you nail the last ship in that wave, generally leaving you caught in the warp core breaches as it dies.

I think I have a screenie of one of the missions, showing the mission tracker. I'll check my FRAPS archive and link it for you in just a few.

::EDIT::

Ok, here are links to a pair of screenies showing the mission type in the tracker, and the name of the system involved (CodeRanger told me some problems are system specific, so this may help).

http://home.comcast.net/~valethar/im...system_001.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~valethar/im...system_002.jpg

As I mentioned earlier, the mission types that I find this happening on the most are the ones shown in the screenies above (in fact, I just found a typo in the first one LOL).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-02-2010, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
"To have a bunch of text block your vision the instant you kill a ship... is appalling interface design."

I completely agree, which is why this isn't actually supposed to happen.

Your "in-combat" state is supposed to persist for a few seconds after anyone has targeted you, to give time for ships to blow up, etc. before interactions or contact dialogues appear.

Can you give specific examples of maps/missions you're seeing this on, or is it always happening? Do you recall if you were actually in combat (does it still say "Condition Red" at the top of the screen) or were the contact dialogues just appearing too quickly after combat was over?
Star Cluster missions... Defend the Base or Defend the Ship missions... the ships come in waves and after each wave the INSTANT you kill the last ship of each wave, the Pop-Up-Of-Death works its evil magic and, er, pops up right in your face quite literally the split second the ship is killed (i.e. BEFORE the final warp core breach), so just a second or two before the breach, you lose sight of everything (and if you have not set "keep moving during dialogues" to YES, you have the extra added joy of your speed dropping to zero right next to the dying ship ).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-02-2010, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilhippo View Post
Star Cluster missions... Defend the Base or Defend the Ship missions... the ships come in waves and after each wave the INSTANT you kill the last ship of each wave, the Pop-Up-Of-Death works its evil magic and, er, pops up right in your face quite literally the split second the ship is killed (i.e. BEFORE the final warp core breach), so just a second or two before the breach, you lose sight of everything (and if you have not set "keep moving during dialogues" to YES, you have the extra added joy of your speed dropping to zero right next to the dying ship ).
Even with it set to keep you moving, you're almost always in the blast radius. The big issues are not being able to see where the next enemies are if you use a speed boost to jump clear, and not being able to turn with the mouse because of that window being in the way. You can literally run right into the next wave before the Alert status is canceled and have no opportunity to regen, etc before you're back into the fight.

Running smack into a battleship like this can be a real invigorating experience!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-02-2010, 02:56 PM
"Do you even play Star Trek Online?"

Yes, I do play.

I have seen this happening occasionally but not to the frequency that some people are reporting. We have to fix this on a case by case basis and obviously we missed some cases. We do appreciate the help in tracking down the ones we missed, so thank you to everyone who gave specific examples.

Depending on what missions you like to do you'll be seeing this more or less often, as you can probably tell by reading the other responses to this thread.

I want to make sure everyone knows that you *can* move the contact dialogue window. You have to click on the title area above the contact picture, or on the picture itself, to grab the window. Then it will be draggable.

I also wanted to make sure everyone knows that the button in the top left corner of the contact will minimize it and turn it into a button that appears on the lower right of the screen. That button will be present for as long as the contact dialogue is available. This has always been the case, but I think that having that button be an "X" must have been misleading. So I changed it to a standard "minimize" symbol. If you want to put the guy on hold, just click the "-" button in the top left corner (the image change should go live with the next update).

I have also made this window remember its previous position, so it will reappear in whatever location you dragged it to, rather than always reappearing in the centre of the screen (this should also go live with the next update).

We are trying to make sure all the contacts know not to appear during combat, but I hope this information and these changes help in cases like when you're reading the dialogue and *then* you get attacked (obviously making you unattackable whenever the contact dialogue is up would be, um, unwise)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-02-2010, 03:02 PM
I think most of us know that we can move or minimize the window but the fact is that when the dang thing pops up while you are engaged with an enemy ( an example is SB 24 mission ) pops when you are in the fleet action!! why does it do this.......? I endup lossing shields and get hit hard when this happens it is aggrivating !!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-02-2010, 06:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
So I changed it to a standard "minimize" symbol. If you want to put the guy on hold, just click the "-" button in the top left corner (the image change should go live with the next update).
Of course you actually mean the "_" button here, right?

The standard minimize is an underscore, not a hyphen.


Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-02-2010, 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UI_Maven
We are trying to make sure all the contacts know not to appear during combat, but I hope this information and these changes help in cases like when you're reading the dialogue and *then* you get attacked (obviously making you unattackable whenever the contact dialogue is up would be, um, unwise)
That would be unwise, but (I at least) am just simply looking for better timing. Many times the contact window will pop up and the information given will suggest an attack is about to start. And sure enough, it immediately does. Of course, we're still reading page 1 of 3 at that point and want to finish reading the dialogue while it's still relevant information, so putting it off to the side until later doesn't really help us. Can't the timing just be improved in cases like this?

Right now we see this:

Sec.
0:00) Page 1: Captain, Romulan vessels are inbound on an attack course!
0:01) Enemy ships spawn and attack your ship. Player attempts to move through dialogue quickly.
0:01) Page 1 continues: blah blah details the player should know.
0:10) Page 2: more details the player should know.
0:20) Page 3: Closing details and the actual point of this conversation.
0:30) Player has finished dialogue and can now finally defend themselves.

What you're suggesting is this:

Sec.
0:00) Page 1: Captain, Romulan vessels are inbound on an attack course!
0:01) Enemy ships spawn and attack your ship.
0:02) Player minimizes dialogue and can now defend themselves, but isn't getting to read the information relevant to this part of the mission yet.
2:00) Player finishes combat, opens dialogue box and reads information relevant to a fight that just finished.

What we want is this:

Sec.
0:00) Page 1: Captain, Romulan vessels are inbound on an attack course!
0:01) Page 1 continues: blah blah details the player should know.
0:10) Page 2: more details the player should know.
0:20) Page 3: Closing details and the actual point of this conversation.
0:30) Player closes the dialogue box and can now defend themselves.
0:31) Enemy ships spawn and attack your ship now that the dialogue box has been closed.

It's just a matter of better timing on triggering events when scripting out these missions.
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