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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-01-2010, 11:21 PM
A couple of reasons.

IIRC the Klingon Neg has 3 engineering BO slots. That's alot of self healing. Also I had the occasion to face a fed group that were RSP spamming and it could have looked like what you saw. They would appear to be almost unkillable with 3 + RSP. Especially in a 1 on 1 beam array fight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-01-2010, 11:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakinator
I have an R5 Tactical and I can puat up a decent fight on the Ground but the klingons have an edge but I can understand that.

But I have an Assault Cruiser that can't turn worth beans and I can live with that but the fact that the best equipment mony can buy amounts to tissue paper armor thats a bit much. I have to hit people with a lot of fire to take their shields down AND then I need High Yield torpedos to kill the ship all while not being able to turn.

Now on my Bird of Prey, I open fire with my Cannons and they will die quickly (I am not the same level) or it would be faster. It seems to me that the cannons do too much damage to both shield and hull whereas the feds do dmg to only one or the other not both. Now BoP have the advantage of manueverability and speed so they can get away. The battleships on the other hand are the problem as they are above the best ships the feds have in shielding and fire power.
Some feds do either one type of damage or the other. The insistance on 6 plus beam weapons on fed cruisers makes BoP's and other escorts seem to be harder to kill but they aren't. Quantums do a **** load of damage and I personally use 2 fore and 2 aft.

Once you survive the initial barage from an escort you can kill them. Take their front shields down and feed them torpedeos till they explode. The only ones to worry about are the sci spamming BoP's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-02-2010, 06:58 AM
I can sympathize with the op. However, I play both sides so i like others have seen both sides of the coin. I understand some of the replies and also agree that klingons are much better at pvp for three reasons.

The first is as others already indicated, they must pvp to level so they quickly learn to survive in that environment. Secondly most of experienced pvp players are over on that side simply because they live for pvp. They are already experienced and can quickly learn how to survive better in the first place, and use team work much better. I see too many feds hitting all their survivability keys at once. They will hit rsp, esp, eps, etc all in the same sequence. Instead of learning to time their use. Hit esp, let it do it's job, then time it with eng team, this is on the same cool down as sci 1, but it still refreshes. So i find by the time sci 1 refreshes it's actually time to use it, so i time that. Then time everything else. Klingons, or i should say good pvp'rs realize that this sequence is not set in stone. It will change according to each and every battle and encounter, so they know when to use what in every situation and not just spam all their keys at the same time.

It's also just about using your brain. 99.9 percent of klingons will use cannons. They do this for two reasons, One, we just like to use the biggest badest weapons to see things go boom. So know your enemy. If those weapons have a 45 degree firing arc, just move out of the arc. Secondly know that these players will always try to get to the back of your ship and ride you. Especially if your in a fed cruiser. So again it's about using your brain and knowing the capabilities of your enemy. Knowing what they can do before hand means you usually already won, or can atleast escape.

Also are you switching your power settings. If I am working with a team i will switch all power to weapons. If i suddenly get attacked by multiple enemies, I am going to instantly switch all my power to shields. That is why you may find your shields being blasted apart so quickly when klingon's are holding up. They are simply smart enough to switch power settings.. They are experienced pvp'rs so can do this very quickly. I do this even on the fed side, i will give an example of a mission i had yesterday to tie it all together after my last point..

I don't know how many times on the fed ship i don't see people assisting one another and all firing at different ships where klingons will just klick on a ship or pick a main assist from their team. On most every klingon team I played on, even pug's I hear one question asked over and over. Who is going to be the main assist?

I have never once, heard this question asked on the fed side. Not once, EVER, be it on the ground or space.

My last point is directly related to question 2. Which also directly addresses the cannon question. A lot of people are attracted to the klingon side just due to the fact of their pvp attributes. One they can run away much better than we can, add bop's that can battle cloak, (which is highly over rated and actually works against them in many instances.), and every single ship can use heavy cannons.. There is your problem right there. So naturally more people will gravitate to that side.

So the problem isn't so much with cannon damage it's more along the lines that klingons can use every single weapon platform, combination available to them and fed's cannot. I have no idea why cryptic created such an imbalance. Fed cruisers are plenty large enough to carry heavy cannons, i do not know why they are denied this capability. If they could you'd see fed's winning a lot more pvp matches.

Now i will switch thoughts for a moment. I agree that klingons time things much better than most feds. However, No ship, fed or klink, should be able to withstand and survive 4 or more ships attacking them. I too, like the op see this far too often. In one encounter yesterday 4 of us where firing on 1 klink and his shields stayed up forever. His shields stayed up so long it allowed his teammates to cross from one side of the salvage map to the other. No ship should be able to survive for extended periods of time like that taking massive hits from 4 ships. The problem? Cannons.

Since two of the 4 ships were cruisers and denied the ability to use heavy cannons this extended the life of the klingon. Had that been 4 klingons, all using heavy cannons and multiple versions of cannon rapid fire, they rip through shields and fed's die very quickly. another trick klingons use, like feds using multiple versions of fps, many klinks use multiple versions of cannon rapid fire. I know of one individual that can keep his cannons rapidly firing 75% percent of the encounter. Also since cannons are not effected by feed back pulse, why do you think klinks use cannons instead of beams?

This is where the imbalance comes in. Federation cruisers should be allowed to use heavy cannons as well. It is just stupid to me to see why they cannot. Also bear in mind with the ability to cloak and using much better team work then feds do they can dictate the battles and their position from the start.

They don't just rush in. Imagine a good klink team, all picking a main assist, then cloak, pick the location of the battle or fly in formation to where fed's are, all position them selves to the rear of their target, the team leader yells now, they all decloak at the exact same time, all blasting the same target, hit evasive manuevers and zip away, all recloak and join up again to rinse and repeat. Or simple all switch to the next target all blasting the next ship in line. They can also bait you. Take a good long look at that single klink not cloaked. He's probably bait for 5 other ships about to decloak and pounce the minute you rush in.......

So another reason you see people gravitating to the klink side and simply using better team work. However I promised an example so i will use it to close this long read.

Yesterday in my fed cruiser I got attacked by two bop's. Already knowing they were going to get behind me, I instantly turned the counter into a circle fight. With good ability timing i was able to survive for quite some time.. I switched my power setting to defensive, then hit each ability in order as i needed them. However knowing that it was just a matter of time, both bop's using heavy cannons and rapid fire, time would be on their side. So knowing they wanted to get behind me, I simply let them. The moment both were behind me I hit eject warp plasma, trapped and slow'd both of them, Quickly switched power levels to speed, hit both evasive maneuvers and ramming speed at the same time and got the hell out of dodge.. I almost made it too... lol.

Anyway the point being, know all your tricks. Ramming speed and evasive man, do not share the same cool down and both are speed boosts. Klinks arn't the only ones that can run away quickly when needed. They also know that sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. In plenty of encounters hitting ramming speed, evasive manuevers and changing power settings i escaped, yesterday I did not. They got me in the end. Most fed's i see would have started complaining in zone chat, "that's unfair" Most klinks would just laugh it off, chalk it up to experience and just enjoyed the pvp for the sake of pvp and learned from the experience..

In fact what did happen is both klinks made comments in open zone chat, "Nice fight". My reply was, "Yeah I almost thought I was going to get away there for a second" In which they just laughed. The end result was even though I died they show'd respect.

Which is Exactly, without a doubt, the biggest difference in the two sides, Hands down...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-02-2010, 07:45 PM
OP do yourself a favor.

Make a Klingon character.

You would not believe me if I told you all the perks and differences between theirs and Fed ships.

You will only believe once you've seen it yourself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-02-2010, 09:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
OP do yourself a favor.

Make a Klingon character.

You would not believe me if I told you all the perks and differences between theirs and Fed ships.

You will only believe once you've seen it yourself.
True enough... for example Klingons have no proper science ship (the beached whale carrier is what they get) and the BoP, contrary to what some claim, makes a lousy one (no free sub-system targeting and a weak hull and escort-like shields).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-03-2010, 02:17 AM
i played both sides and escorts on the fed side are clearly outmatched in the defense part. my escort ship on the klink side was like flying a science ship the defense was really high compared to the fed side. on the fed side it takes a couple seconds to kill my escort then on the klink side using the same abilities at the same levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-03-2010, 06:47 AM
Sorry I didn't compare any science ships.

I was mainly concerned with Fed Escorts vs BoP's.

BoP's win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-03-2010, 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelmvor
I can sympathize with the op. However, I play both sides so i like others have seen both sides of the coin. I understand some of the replies and also agree that klingons are much better at pvp for three reasons.

The first is as others already indicated, they must pvp to level so they quickly learn to survive in that environment. Secondly most of experienced pvp players are over on that side simply because they live for pvp. They are already experienced and can quickly learn how to survive better in the first place, and use team work much better. I see too many feds hitting all their survivability keys at once. They will hit rsp, esp, eps, etc all in the same sequence. Instead of learning to time their use. Hit esp, let it do it's job, then time it with eng team, this is on the same cool down as sci 1, but it still refreshes. So i find by the time sci 1 refreshes it's actually time to use it, so i time that. Then time everything else. Klingons, or i should say good pvp'rs realize that this sequence is not set in stone. It will change according to each and every battle and encounter, so they know when to use what in every situation and not just spam all their keys at the same time.

It's also just about using your brain. 99.9 percent of klingons will use cannons. They do this for two reasons, One, we just like to use the biggest badest weapons to see things go boom. So know your enemy. If those weapons have a 45 degree firing arc, just move out of the arc. Secondly know that these players will always try to get to the back of your ship and ride you. Especially if your in a fed cruiser. So again it's about using your brain and knowing the capabilities of your enemy. Knowing what they can do before hand means you usually already won, or can atleast escape.

Also are you switching your power settings. If I am working with a team i will switch all power to weapons. If i suddenly get attacked by multiple enemies, I am going to instantly switch all my power to shields. That is why you may find your shields being blasted apart so quickly when klingon's are holding up. They are simply smart enough to switch power settings.. They are experienced pvp'rs so can do this very quickly. I do this even on the fed side, i will give an example of a mission i had yesterday to tie it all together after my last point..

I don't know how many times on the fed ship i don't see people assisting one another and all firing at different ships where klingons will just klick on a ship or pick a main assist from their team. On most every klingon team I played on, even pug's I hear one question asked over and over. Who is going to be the main assist?

I have never once, heard this question asked on the fed side. Not once, EVER, be it on the ground or space.

My last point is directly related to question 2. Which also directly addresses the cannon question. A lot of people are attracted to the klingon side just due to the fact of their pvp attributes. One they can run away much better than we can, add bop's that can battle cloak, (which is highly over rated and actually works against them in many instances.), and every single ship can use heavy cannons.. There is your problem right there. So naturally more people will gravitate to that side.

So the problem isn't so much with cannon damage it's more along the lines that klingons can use every single weapon platform, combination available to them and fed's cannot. I have no idea why cryptic created such an imbalance. Fed cruisers are plenty large enough to carry heavy cannons, i do not know why they are denied this capability. If they could you'd see fed's winning a lot more pvp matches.

Now i will switch thoughts for a moment. I agree that klingons time things much better than most feds. However, No ship, fed or klink, should be able to withstand and survive 4 or more ships attacking them. I too, like the op see this far too often. In one encounter yesterday 4 of us where firing on 1 klink and his shields stayed up forever. His shields stayed up so long it allowed his teammates to cross from one side of the salvage map to the other. No ship should be able to survive for extended periods of time like that taking massive hits from 4 ships. The problem? Cannons.

Since two of the 4 ships were cruisers and denied the ability to use heavy cannons this extended the life of the klingon. Had that been 4 klingons, all using heavy cannons and multiple versions of cannon rapid fire, they rip through shields and fed's die very quickly. another trick klingons use, like feds using multiple versions of fps, many klinks use multiple versions of cannon rapid fire. I know of one individual that can keep his cannons rapidly firing 75% percent of the encounter. Also since cannons are not effected by feed back pulse, why do you think klinks use cannons instead of beams?

This is where the imbalance comes in. Federation cruisers should be allowed to use heavy cannons as well. It is just stupid to me to see why they cannot. Also bear in mind with the ability to cloak and using much better team work then feds do they can dictate the battles and their position from the start.

They don't just rush in. Imagine a good klink team, all picking a main assist, then cloak, pick the location of the battle or fly in formation to where fed's are, all position them selves to the rear of their target, the team leader yells now, they all decloak at the exact same time, all blasting the same target, hit evasive manuevers and zip away, all recloak and join up again to rinse and repeat. Or simple all switch to the next target all blasting the next ship in line. They can also bait you. Take a good long look at that single klink not cloaked. He's probably bait for 5 other ships about to decloak and pounce the minute you rush in.......

So another reason you see people gravitating to the klink side and simply using better team work. However I promised an example so i will use it to close this long read.

Yesterday in my fed cruiser I got attacked by two bop's. Already knowing they were going to get behind me, I instantly turned the counter into a circle fight. With good ability timing i was able to survive for quite some time.. I switched my power setting to defensive, then hit each ability in order as i needed them. However knowing that it was just a matter of time, both bop's using heavy cannons and rapid fire, time would be on their side. So knowing they wanted to get behind me, I simply let them. The moment both were behind me I hit eject warp plasma, trapped and slow'd both of them, Quickly switched power levels to speed, hit both evasive maneuvers and ramming speed at the same time and got the hell out of dodge.. I almost made it too... lol.

Anyway the point being, know all your tricks. Ramming speed and evasive man, do not share the same cool down and both are speed boosts. Klinks arn't the only ones that can run away quickly when needed. They also know that sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. In plenty of encounters hitting ramming speed, evasive manuevers and changing power settings i escaped, yesterday I did not. They got me in the end. Most fed's i see would have started complaining in zone chat, "that's unfair" Most klinks would just laugh it off, chalk it up to experience and just enjoyed the pvp for the sake of pvp and learned from the experience..

In fact what did happen is both klinks made comments in open zone chat, "Nice fight". My reply was, "Yeah I almost thought I was going to get away there for a second" In which they just laughed. The end result was even though I died they show'd respect.

Which is Exactly, without a doubt, the biggest difference in the two sides, Hands down...
Very nice post. I read the whole thing and it maintained my interest the entire time. I have two Fed PVE characters (Eng and Tac) and you've convinced me to not only try Klingon but also PvP! I will have to do some serious research on builds and ships as I am very green when it comes to PvP. A few questions:

1.) Do you recommend Eng, Tac, or Sci and why?
2.) What ship type do you recommend? In combination with what captain type?
3.) What is a good starting build for said combination?

Many Thanks!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-03-2010, 09:37 AM
I've only played with BoP's so far because of "Battle Cloak."

This allows you to cloak to escape a fight when you are getting your butt kicked.

I have suffered often from it on the Fed side when I have reduced a Klang to just a bit of hull left and Oh! He's gone, and there are his 5 buddies decloaking on my butt because Klangs really like man butt.

The above poster has much more wind than me, I'll let him fill out your other requests.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-03-2010, 11:54 AM
Well i beleve the Dev's need to remove the Bleed through on the Fed Shilds
10 % Bleed eww
or add more Resistance. why your at it

at 1 Time Fed shilds had no Bleed through
if you're a shield-tanker
increasing the total damage you can tank will Let you live a bit longer

As far as "Battle Cloak." goes it Needs 3 sec cool down befor it can recloak i beleve.

My ship getting shot by miny Fed ships at one time


Quote:
sorry for late video
it's nice up to data PvP FvF
look close for the Game Stoper lol
it was a random pvp i was kinda sleepy as well but i injoy it
even if i did get killed lol

I hope you all in joy my HD video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z03jwnj6LJg
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