Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
07-22-2010, 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
Actually I donīt agree with this. Surprise.

Itīs one of the greatest problems of TV shows and elevating the scientific illiterate writing as canon.

Zipping around in space is actually a sure death sentence without a type of shielding permanently active.
NON "corporeal" shielding that is.
As any matter hit by intra planetary and/or solar radiation will soon become a source of radiation itself, no matter what fancy shmancy transparent aluminiums etc. you make up.

So anything but alert red in space is suicidal.

Or was it yellow? I guess we donīt need powered up weapons all the time, as we have the deflector dish to actually deflect anything that wants to punch through the hull while weīre flying at it.

As it is now I just view it as a war directive from Starfleet to have red alert be the standard MO while not flying under full impulse. Actually a pretty sane idea when your enemy can cloak and you never know when itīs coming.
It's not just a matter of technology (weapons/shields), though it would be terribly inefficient if all these systems were constantly powered up. May use up fuel at an unacceptable rate...if these ships do use fuel.

The real cost of Red Alert (an equivalent to Battle Stations) is that it is very hard on crews. The state of readiness that must be maintained manning stations with extra personnel, damage control units formed up by otherwise sleeping off-shift crew, heightened need to continually scan and search...these states can only be kept up for so long. Fatigue limits you far sooner than technology.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
07-22-2010, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Democratus View Post
The real cost of Red Alert (an equivalent to Battle Stations) is that it is very hard on crews. The state of readiness that must be maintained manning stations with extra personnel, damage control units formed up by otherwise sleeping off-shift crew, heightened need to continually scan and search...these states can only be kept up for so long. Fatigue limits you far sooner than technology.
Tough.
Still better than waking up in your jammies while floating in space.

War footing against an enemy that cloaks!
Thus can pop up everywhere and anytime. Feds donīt have any choice but be on permanent battle stations.

Another good reason BTW to tell SELA & the Roms to take a hike on the cloaking issue. They can go cry to their Hirogen buddies.

Federation ships use a mix of fusion generators and an anti-mater reaction in the warp core to generate energy. Deuterium in a big tank and anti-mater in specific pods is the fuel for it. And if "the engines canae take it" then they better learn to do this nonetheless.
Make it so ASAP!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
07-22-2010, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
Tough.
Still better than waking up in your jammies while floating in space.
This simply doesn't work. There is a huge body of study by both civilian and naval psychologists to prove it. Add to that the fact that these ships are in space (a very hostile environment) and it compounds things even more.

Remember that horrible TNG episode where there is a disease that makes everyone act drunk? They find a ship where everyone is dead because someone vented all the air out into space. This is the kind of thing that will happen if your crew suffers too much fatigue.

People can not stay at maximum alertness constantly. It's a physical and mental impossibility.

Quote:
War footing against an enemy that cloaks!
Thus can pop up everywhere and anytime. Feds donīt have any choice but be on permanent battle stations.
Little different than war footing against an enemy with submarines. But navies in WWII were not constantly at Battle Stations. In practice it does not work.

Quote:
Federation ships use a mix of fusion generators and an anti-mater reaction in the warp core to generate energy. Deuterium in a big tank and anti-mater in specific pods is the fuel for it. And if "the engines canae take it" then they better learn to do this nonetheless.
Make it so ASAP!
True enough. Engines work when it's good for a story, and fail for the same reason. JMS had a great answer for how fast ships flew in his universe, "At the speed of plot!".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
07-22-2010, 08:23 AM
True, but then again weīre dealing with relatively small ships that have hundreds of crew.
Always wondered what all these guys do.

Having a permanent "battle-stations" crew while the other half is sleeping would solve that conundrum nicely. Of course you have to kiss the cozy cruise ship Starfleet from the TV shows good by. Hot bunking like in todays submarines would automatically become standard.

Iīm sure an organization that can handle building, equipping, manning and logistically supplying a fleet of star ships, will handle this problem too.

Heck even the US did this to an extent during their recent wars, and with the help of certain "speedy" powders.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
07-22-2010, 08:31 AM
I see arguments for and against having the alert toggles. If Cryptic would develop a plot/mechanic use for it (If having weapons powered in the upcoming diplomatic missions had consequences, but condition green leaves you vulnerable to attack...) then I'd be all for it. But currently, there is condition green, which automatically switches to red alert for combat. Now I recall plenty of episodes where it was Riker who declared the red alert, even while Picard was on the bridge... I simply take it as: I'm the captain, and my first officer is calling for the red alert. Works enough for me. As for when I'm, not at red alert? What stops me from simply claiming the shields aren't powered up? There's a graphic showing the system is available/undamaged, but doesn't necessarily mean they're active. They don't even show around my ship like they do in combat.

For me, it doesn't affect the feel. What affects the feel more is that there are no missions/mechanics that would need this kind of mechanic. When it's NEEDED needed, then it'll be a priority for me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
07-22-2010, 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivarST
True, but then again weīre dealing with relatively small ships that have hundreds of crew.
Always wondered what all these guys do.

Having a permanent "battle-stations" crew while the other half is sleeping would solve that conundrum nicely.
Sorry. That simply doesn't work. If any crew's whole shift is a state of advanced alert - then the whole shift is a state of non-advanced alert. Anything that becomes "normal" will begin to be treated in a normal fashion. We aren't designed to be at heightened alert on a long term basis.

Quote:
Of course you have to kiss the cozy cruise ship Starfleet from the TV shows good by. Hot bunking like in todays submarines would automatically become standard.
Submarines operating on 'hot bunking' still are not at battle stations all the time. They go to battle stations when on attack or when sonar detects a contact or when a VLF message dictates. But otherwise they are at "ready" when in potentially hostile waters - I'd liken this to Yellow Alert..

Quote:
Iīm sure an organization that can handle building, equipping, manning and logistically supplying a fleet of star ships, will handle this problem too.

Heck even the US did this to an extent during their recent wars, and with the help of certain "speedy" powders.
The US, Britian, Russia, etc. are pretty old hat at building, equipping, manning and logistically supplying a fleet right now. The 'starship' part is a matter of technology. Maintaining crews is nothing new.

So we have very real reasons to have different states of alert. We also have cinematic reasons as it helps set a story to new levels of tension. All compelling reasons to include them in the ST universe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
07-22-2010, 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Democratus View Post
Sorry. That simply doesn't work. If any crew's whole shift is a state of advanced alert - then the whole shift is a state of non-advanced alert. Anything that becomes "normal" will begin to be treated in a normal fashion. We aren't designed to be at heightened alert on a long term basis.
Well no, it doesnīt of course. When you use your battle-stations version of red alert.

Iīm actually talking about the permanent red alert we see in game. Which means nothing else but having juice on all fighting devices and a crew that isnīt playing cards in their bunks. And slurping ractajinos, chatting with each other over the weapons console instead of sitting at it at the ready.

No reason they canīt keep all stations maned permanently, just as they donīt have to be under full fighting stress all the time.
But manned and prepared to go from 0 to 100 they have to be. Just like fire fighters do.

Thus I see no real reason to add the "color stations". The current permanent war readiness does nicely without any special micromanaging necessary.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:10 AM.