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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Is it possible for 1 player to hit with 2 exploit attacks at the same time in ground PvP? I know that there is a cooldown on secondary attacks when you switch weapons, but is there a way around that so that the attacks effectively land at the same time.

I have a tactical officer in tier 3 right now, and have been encountering another tactical officer with the same kit and probably the same skills (though slightly higher level than me) quite a bit. Tier 3 is intimate enough that you see the same players and get to know them.

The first time I saw this player, my team mates accused her of hacking, saying she was 1-shotting people. I had died almost instantly a few times, but it was in team vs. team situations so I figured 2 people were hitting me with exploits at once. I know I can drop either a shield or health from 100% to 0% in a single shot (not both at once) and seeing that this player had the same build as me, I figured she was 1-shotting just the shields and then other team-mates hit with secondary attacks at the same time, obliterating the health.

That was a few days ago. Today, I accused her of hacking, but thinking about it there might be a flaw in the game mechanics which allow a 1-shot, so maybe I owe an apology.

What I noticed is that several times when it was just her and me, I've still dropped in one shot. Now this player is damn good, don't get me wrong on that. She is very quick in swapping weapons and in transitioning between sprinting and kneeling. She *always* fires while crouching, and is so fast switching between running and crouching that she gets a *lot* of flank shots. In a typical match, she will end with credit for about 35 of her teams 40 kills, while the rest of the team gets credit for 10 to 15 each. Everything about her play style seems *perfect* to my observation.

I consider myself pretty good. I'm used to winning. 1-1 I'm not the best, but I win a lot more than I lose, and I'm generally very aware of what I need improvement on. With a team that sticks together, uses cover, and assists team-mates in trouble, I'm almost *never* in a losing match (and those times when we do lose it's because we fought another good team). I know that I suck at some things, but in the past teamworks has always been enough to tilt the odds. When I'm on a winning team, I might or might not have the highest contribution, but the entire team will be very similar because we assisted one another.

My emphasis on teamwork is part of why I'm so offended that a solo rambo can bee so effective. i understand the survival part of what she does. I could run into the middle of an enemy team, fire off a secondary attack; then use a combination of stun grenade, shield charges, and cover to survive against 4 players firing on me long enough that my exploit would cool down to be used again. What I don't understand is how she manages the one shot. Even if this player runs alone into the enemy team, she can kill one player, use her defenses, then kill another, which even with her defenses on cooldown leaves her ahead in points. And 1-3 is much better odds than 1-5; I'm impressed but not surprised to see a player come out ahead in 1-3 fights.

I've reviewed my combat logs, and what's happening is that this player is hitting with a sniper rifle, followed immediately by a compression pistol. It's always 1 and then the other, but even in 5-5 fights she lands both hits with nothing in between -- of the other 8 players in the fight none uses any ability or suffers any effects between her 2 exploit shots, which seems really fishy.

If her attack comes from the front and I have my damage resistances up (I almost always do), then usually the killing shot isn't actually one of the exploits, but a normal shot which comes almost immediately after. the timing of the third shot doesn't bug me, and her exploit damage is in line with what I know tac officers can do in tier 3. It's the back-to-back exploits that seem out of line.

I think that what she does is fires the sniper rifle, which has a very long animation time, and then changes weapons while the sniper attack is animating but before it actually fires. I think that the cooldown on the compression pistol's secondary is happening at the same time as the sniper shot is still animating, so she effectively "fires" both at the same time.

I don't use 2 exploit weapons, because generally I find a compression pistol to cool down fast enough, and I like to have a stun pistol ready to peel enemies off of team mates. I'm going to have to pick up a sniper rifle and test this out though. I don't think I'd use that tactic beyond testing to see if it works, but if it works then something is broken with the game.

I know she might have better weapons or skills than me, so mostly I'm just interested to see if I can make the two weapons fire at the same time, not if my damage is the same. If I can make it work though, that's something that has to change. The best thing about ground PvP is that in general players survive longer than in space, so the 1-shots need to go. She lands 2 eploitns faster than you can land an expose/exploit combo (never mind the luck it takes to get an exploit on your first try).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-03-2010, 11:52 AM
Been testing, and I can't swap weapons until the sniper shot is done firing, so that's not the culprit. Been trying Tactical Initiative to see if that somehow reduces the cooldown on secondary effects when you swap, but it doesn't.

I'd like to see if there were a way to macro firing and swapping weapons at the same time, because that might let you swap before the shot is done animating, but there is almost no documentation on macros for this game. And even if there were it seems that using it for what I'd be testing would be a terms of use violation anyway.

I tried the Sniper/Compression combination both in PvP and PvE, and there's nothing I can do to make the shots land back-to-back with nothing else happening in between.

This is leading me to think that the player really is using a cheat of some sort, which is a real pain in the butt. I'm playing STO on a Mac in a WINE wrapper, so taking the screenshots I'd need for proof of cheating is a real chore.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-12-2010, 06:48 AM
+1

I happened to meet one player in ground PvP twice now with my new twink (Lt Com 3, Level 13) and he is literally able to one shot me.
Yes, I DO know that killing a player with one sniper shot is possible, if you flank, hit a crit, exploit vs expose, are just lucky.

But, what the OP wrote, and I think I have to support his statement, happened to me as well. I am in a 1on1 situation several times against this player, not flanked, not exposed. One attack hits me and I am dead.

According to the log, it is 2 exploit attacks at the very same moment (as far as I am able to read the standard ingame log), and, as the OP, I figured out I got hit by a Compression Pistol and a Sniper Rifle.


The next time I meet him/her I will report a bug, hoping that will help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-12-2010, 07:31 AM
I can explain how people can get killed by critical shots somewhat frequently at LCDR lvl, but I cannot explain how 1 person can shoot two weapons at once.

The problem is the stacking damage modifiers and the low lvl of resist/hit points/shield points at lower level. A player spec'ed out for ground combat can take numerous race traits as an alien and stack damage bonuses. This is usually step one. The same player will then use Integrated Targeting Armor for +5% critical chance and/or up to +60 critical severity. The player will then use a MK IV sniper rifle with up to +4% and/or up to +60 critical severity (usually combination's of both in both armor and weapon).

When you combine the racial traits, the damage bonuses, the critical chance bonuses, and the critical damage bonuses against a LCDR who usually has relatively low resists - the damage can often reach 400 easily on just a critical shot, and often a lot more. The damage for an expose shot can be well over 1000. Combined shields and life a LCDR simply cannot absorb that much damage in a single shot.

It is frustrating how damage stacks so high and so quickly at lower levels but there simply aren't very many resist/defensive options at that level. I think the one-hit wonders of lower levels turn off players to ground PvP and it explains why participation at high levels is low, even though I can promise you guys that at higher levels things are much better - and your shields/armor/buffs catch up later on to make everyone much more survivable and competitive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-13-2010, 02:07 AM
What Darksided said, and also Target Optics.

The super-fast weapon switching, though, isn't something I can explain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-24-2010, 11:55 AM
as one of the tatical snipers that does that. its super effective way of just popping ppl off.

here is what i do.

*get my buffs on.
*stun you
*run beside you
*ambush
*sniper
*then maybe a lunge
*and another round.

your dead.

my expose crits are upware of 1300+

and i get 500-600 crits regularly
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-24-2010, 02:23 PM
Sounds like normal lt.com ground pvp. Is your gear garbage? If it is white, then green is better. If it is green, then blue is better. If you are wearing all blue, the you shouldn't have that much of a problem. Also, in the non one on ones, it could just be someone targeting you via assist target on their team mate.

To answer your question, no. It isn't possible for to exploit attacks to be done at the same time. Even with macro by the same player who is by himself. About the closest you can come to that is with a sci guy and that has speed/luck limitations. If you notice in ground situations in pvp(sometimes pve with other players), when two people target the same exposed player/npc only one ever gets credit for the exploit. The other player is given credit for a normal special or nothing at all(usually after a death, but due to the buggy nature of sto also when his still alive). Look in your combat logs, they are your friend and can generally tell you if someone is "hacking". I kind of wish there was an option for seconds on the time stamp. Just having it at the minute doesn't help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-25-2010, 02:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerix View Post
+1

I happened to meet one player in ground PvP twice now with my new twink (Lt Com 3, Level 13) and he is literally able to one shot me.
Yes, I DO know that killing a player with one sniper shot is possible, if you flank, hit a crit, exploit vs expose, are just lucky.

But, what the OP wrote, and I think I have to support his statement, happened to me as well. I am in a 1on1 situation several times against this player, not flanked, not exposed. One attack hits me and I am dead.

According to the log, it is 2 exploit attacks at the very same moment (as far as I am able to read the standard ingame log), and, as the OP, I figured out I got hit by a Compression Pistol and a Sniper Rifle.


The next time I meet him/her I will report a bug, hoping that will help.
If you have combat logs of this please forward to cryptic guys in the Star Trek Online IRC Chat Channel in the #stoqa channel during weekdays. If you have this combat log they will look into it and correct such a game exploit if there is one. The quickest way to report an issue is to file a bug report, write down ticket number and then goto the IRC Chat Network and the #stoqa channel for Star Trek online and report the issue to one of the cryptic guys witht he word cryptic in front of their name. There are several of us in this channel that report many bugs to them and they sometimes utilize us to bug test and make sure these bugs are gone on the Tribble server.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-26-2010, 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerix View Post
+1

I happened to meet one player in ground PvP twice now with my new twink (Lt Com 3, Level 13) and he is literally able to one shot me.
Yes, I DO know that killing a player with one sniper shot is possible, if you flank, hit a crit, exploit vs expose, are just lucky.

But, what the OP wrote, and I think I have to support his statement, happened to me as well. I am in a 1on1 situation several times against this player, not flanked, not exposed. One attack hits me and I am dead.

According to the log, it is 2 exploit attacks at the very same moment (as far as I am able to read the standard ingame log), and, as the OP, I figured out I got hit by a Compression Pistol and a Sniper Rifle.


The next time I meet him/her I will report a bug, hoping that will help.
After a lot of playing with it, I think that the "one-shot" was legitimate. I can do it pretty reliably with my tactical officer.

The thing is that the sniper shot and compression bolt landing at the same time is an illusion -- it shows up in your combat log that way, but that's not what's happening. I didn't see it until I tried it with a friend playing in another room and compared logs. On my end I had the normal cooldowns on swapping and almost always landed a normal shot between the two exploits, but his log often just showed the two exploits, and he died quickly enough that it seemed like all one attack.

It's just lag making things seem that way. I'm not sure why the combat log isn't always accurate, but that's just how it is. I tried pretty hard to "cheat", and was never able to get the back-to-back exploits on my end. But just by swapping quickly it often made it seem that way to other players.

At higher ranks I really haven't noticed it. I think that much of it was just the level I was playing at, like Darksided pointed out. At LCDR level damage buffs are a bit higher than resist buffs, so "three-to-four-shots" which can look like "one-shots" are a lot more common. And sometimes crits are just really high for one reason or another. By captain it seemed like everyone had sufficient resists that while dual exploits still hurts, it's not quite as quick.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-28-2010, 02:05 AM
Oddly, when I switch weapons, I have a 3 second delay before I can use the special. Am I missing something here?
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