But... It is true and it's not at all an insult. You're vocal because you post here and communicate with us. You're a minority because the majority of our players do not do this.

I also fail to see how the Massively article changes that. Someone's opinion, even if put to paper, cannot alter the numbers.

It's definitely not an either / or situation. We're making these polls right now. Promise.

I'm not sure I'm following you, David. I've admitted that mistakes were made and explained how we're correcting them. I assure you, we do not take a blasé attitude toward our community and their concerns, hence the constant, direct responses here.

People who want to see their own point of view as the majority have trouble understanding the "vocal minority" concept.

As it's true with most games, the forums, etc are the vocal minority of players. Really loud, but do not speak for everyone.

"Despite some support, the response has been overwhelmingly negative". From Massively,com

Vocal minority sure is getting louder isn’t it? If my post on your lack of respect for your customers is not clear then I understand why this PR is so bad. I been in the PR field my entire career and have never seen this kind of miss management and company damage brought on by one person on one issue. That is of course if you don’t count politics which happens on a day to day bases. I would be very worried I have seen PR team come and go for much less. That’s why we see so many company go with outside PR firms because they started with their own PR Department only to come to the professionals. We have saved many companies and I can only hope Cryptic take this proven route in the future. Well I have to say good luck I think we got some of what we want and more will follow. That was done by what Ivan calls the “Vocal Minority”, well bad news the vocal minority in many other instances outside this game and on many issue has more influence then it appears to have at face value.

Massively saying the majority, when they're clearly using forum activity to support that, doesn't change the fact that it is still a minority of the player base. PR people know that some minorities are louder than others. There has been a vocal minority stating they are dissatisfied with the council. Just like there is a vocal minority stating they are behind the idea.

the smaller child usually yells louder because it is smaller and feels that by being louder it is more likely to be heard and get what it wants...
the smaller child is the vocal minority, but it is still louder then both parents (the vocal magority )

Your quote, you said it, you own it, don’t try and flip what you said here because us DUMDUMS are smarter then that. You meant us that oppose this council not all that post in these treads. You clearly write that here

.

Quote from Ivan
"Oh, we've definitely thought about discontinuing the effort, but I believe we're inclined to give something that's potentially useful a chance before we turn it off because a subsection of a vocal minority on our forums believes it's a bad idea -- a belief that appears to be the result of a lack of clear understanding."

Some people don’t read this entire tread and they should see what we are talking about here. We will not allow you to mold our words or your own words. Again I can care less if you say sorry or whatever you do your the PR guy right just don’t try to flip what you have already state.

You're making a poor logical assumption though. You're assigning a value to all of the people who don't post here. You don't know how they feel about all of this, but you're lumping them into a "silent majority" who must support your viewpoint because they aren't here posting against it.

And that is why some people feel you insulted them. It does infer that you're showing some hostility toward the vocal players who are against you. Has the frequent issues that have cycled through this forum soured the waters that much?

This is somewhat ironic since the entire point of this whole system is to actually get feedback from those people. And it does make me think that you do need get input from them SOMEHOW so you stop assigning them a shadow opinion to support your own. I still don't think you have the right system for that here, though.

We don't know how most people feel about all of this. We won't until you guys do some sort of poll or survey t find out.

So right now, we're all you have. And you DON'T know that we'd fall into the minority of this big poll were to be taken. Its like taking a statistical sample and then declaring that its result is irrelevant because they're a minority sample.

The people here who say "The majority say this" are wrong too, they don't know anymore than you do.

Its only the majority of the people HERE who bother to respond. And right now, that's all you have.

Until you get more data, don't discount us.

can we stop arguing over this in the news section.... that's what the discussions section is for =/

Nope, we can't. As this is the link they have posted to come put feedback in. And surely you must see Ivan-cryptic in here responding.