Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Multi-Vectoring
04-04-2010, 09:58 AM
this is my idea for multi-vectoring and how it can be applied in game in a semi-canon way.

first off instead of only have the promethius class be able to do multi vectoring (because if that was the case then everybody would just fly a promethuis) the devs could make a console, or a c-store item that can substitute one of the concoles (or even 1 of each console) that would allow any RA level ship to be "upgraded" for multi-vectoring this way it is stll semi-canon, i mean, who's to say that since the creation of the promethius starfleet hasn't expanded on the idea of multi-vectoring in a way to enable all exisiting ships to be able to do it with a few modifications (modifications = console/c-store item)

the multi-vectoring gameplay could be the same as the ground gameplay.. i.e you would have the main ship (you) and then 2 other sub ships (your bridge officers) and the commands could be identical to ground combat with 1-2 bridge officers

for example you would have 3 sections "saucer" "top hull" and "lower hull" (for examples)

the saucer would be the player
while the 2 hull sections would appear in the same location and displayed the same way as bridge officers are displayed during ground missions. also with the same controls.. like being "passive/agressive", "attack my target", or "go to position"

the ground work is already there for this to work, the only difficult parts would be
#1 dividing the weapons between the 3 sections (like which weapons stay on the saucer and which weapons go to the various hull parts) my idea for this is you could add 1-2 weapon slots but these would be "special" weapon slots that could only be used while the ship is multi-vectored, or possibly even assigning already equipped weapons to the various parts (i.e. taking this weapon from the forward weapon slot and putting it in the "tophull multi vectoring" spot, so that when no multi-vectored it's in the forward spot, but when multi-vectored it's in the top hull) this would help keep the ship balance depending on what mode it is in.., we could also have multi-vectoring mode take away from the energy levels... i.e. each section could have only 1/3rd the energy power of the completed ship, that way people would have to decide between more attack angles/power v.s. more energy levels (speed, sheilds turning, etc) but of course because the ships are smaller when divided, they'd have the same ammount of speed and turning as a whole ship (or possibly better speed/turning) but would suffer from shield and weapon strength, but of course because it's 3 ships firing instead of 1 ship firing, the weapons strength would balance out and be equal or greater to the ship as a whole, so only the sheilds would suffer.... so it would boil down 2, more fire power, but less sheilds, and having to sacrifice 1 of each console for the increase in fire power....

the second problem would be the graphics... the graphics would have to be redone and added appon for the ships when multi vectored... each ship would have to have to be divided into 3 parts, taking into account the customizational ability of the ships (attaching this hull with this saucer and this nacullus with this strut) so that'd be ALOT of work for the graphics team... fortunately the ground work for the graphics have already been laid with the same customizablity that's causing the problem...
perhaps the graphics team could just divide the ship into the parts it's alread been divided into... i.e saucer section = 1 part, hull = 1 part, and struts+ nacullus = 1 part..... tweek the displays a tiny bit to add mini naculluses to the hull and saucer sections and pow, it looks pretty good =D and since all the saucers/hulls have the same basic design for each of the 6 ship types... you can create a universal nacullus graphic for each type... so instead of having to make 6-8 graphics per ship type, you only need to make 2 (1 for the hull 1 for the saucer)

i hope someone considers the idea, i've though about it and looked at it ALOT and though i am only a novice coder (so i couldn't even begin to tell you in numbers how to do this) i do understand the principals behind videogame design and function and used that to base my ideas appon =/

if you could point out any flaws you might see in my idea, you could point it out and maybe we/i can work on a better solution to the problem aswell ^_^;
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-04-2010, 12:24 PM
I think multi vector assault is a stupid idea and an example of the notoriously bad writing in Voyager. I'm glad that the devs didn't bother to put it into the game, and I hope they won't implement it in the future either.

Besides, you didn't consider the biggest problem with multi vector ships both from a "this doesn't make any freaking sense" and from a gameplay standpoint:

What if your enemy simply blows up one of the sections of your ship since it obviously has less shields than before? Do you continue on without it? Does it magically grow back? What's the penulty for losing one? If there is no penulty what stops people from using them as pocket tanks?

Multi vector ships are a half baked idea, they were in the show and they would be in the game. I like that the game pretty much says that multi vector technology sucked and was abandoned.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-04-2010, 12:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
you didn't consider the biggest problem with multi vector ships both from a "this doesn't make any freaking sense" and from a gameplay standpoint:

What if your enemy simply blows up one of the sections of your ship since it obviously has less shields than before? Do you continue on without it? Does it magically grow back? What's the penulty for losing one? If there is no penulty what stops people from using them as pocket tanks?
i didn't think of that =/.... if 1 ship blows up completely then perhaps you could implement the "revive" ability seen in ground combat....
if all the ships die though, they respawn... if 1 dies it just floats there dead until another ship comes along and pokes it with a heal skill... even if it's your ship...
the same way as if your bo/you die during ground combat
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Hey, i have thought a lot about the mutli vector assault mode and i think it would be best as simply a skill, something along the lines of photonic fleet.

How it would work is fairly simple. You target an enemy and activate the skill, the ship splits into its different sections and attacks the target you selected. You as a player only have very limited control to change targets, all of the firing is automated and maneuvering is based on a set pattern determined by the skill, so basically fluff. The vectored assault mode would give you a slight damage buff and a massive defensive buff (more targets moving faster, harder to hit) for lets say 20-40 seconds. I imagine a skill like this would have a cool down time along the lines of 5-10 minutes. Because you are really still one target even though graphically the ship is three if one "section" dies then the whole ship dies. With this you can make up several reasons why too like shared ships' ai system shuts down with the loss of a section, or there is some shared power mechanism that sends a feedback pulse to bla bla bla.

So lets review:
Start assault mode-Ship splits into three parts (saucer, lower and upper hulls)
Target Enemy-Individual parts face enemy and fire using your weapons automated (perhaps with passes and loops)
Enemy is destroyed-Target another ship-Repeat
Part of ship dies, whole ship is destroyed

I think ive covered everything although i will say that either two things happened to not include this feature in the game.

One, the developers tried something like this can couldn't pull it off with the engine, didn't look right, or simply gave up.

Two, they had thought like Rothnang and believed it was stupid and unnecessary. :/

Considering that the galaxy class in the game also cannot saucer separate im inclined to believe the former.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-04-2010, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
Hey, i have thought a lot about the mutli vector assault mode and i think it would be best as simply a skill, something along the lines of photonic fleet.

How it would work is fairly simple. You target an enemy and activate the skill, the ship splits into its different sections and attacks the target you selected. You as a player only have very limited control to change targets, all of the firing is automated and maneuvering is based on a set pattern determined by the skill, so basically fluff. The vectored assault mode would give you a slight damage buff and a massive defensive buff (more targets moving faster, harder to hit) for lets say 20-40 seconds. I imagine a skill like this would have a cool down time along the lines of 5-10 minutes. Because you are really still one target even though graphically the ship is three if one "section" dies then the whole ship dies. With this you can make up several reasons why too like shared ships' ai system shuts down with the loss of a section, or there is some shared power mechanism that sends a feedback pulse to bla bla bla.

So lets review:
Start assault mode-Ship splits into three parts (saucer, lower and upper hulls)
Target Enemy-Individual parts face enemy and fire using your weapons automated (perhaps with passes and loops)
Enemy is destroyed-Target another ship-Repeat
Part of ship dies, whole ship is destroyed

I think ive covered everything although i will say that either two things happened to not include this feature in the game.

One, the developers tried something like this can couldn't pull it off with the engine, didn't look right, or simply gave up.

Two, they had thought like Rothnang and believed it was stupid and unnecessary. :/

Considering that the galaxy class in the game also cannot saucer separate im inclined to believe the former.
yeah the devs even stated a while back in one of the threads (i've lost it since) that they tried multi-vectoring in the closed beta and didn't get it quiet right and so had to abandon it, atleast temporarily while
they figured out a way to make it work =/

i like your idea on how to approach multi-vectoring and making it a skill, but then how is the skill regulated? who gets it? who doesn't? etc...
also it limits it's use then.. personal id prefer being able to float around sol in multi-vectored mode...just to say i could ^_^;
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-04-2010, 05:10 PM
Ah sorry i didn't post that because i thought it would be obvious. :p

I haven't seen an example of this in game but the skill should be tied to the class of ship it applies to. In this case since its only on one ship type it would be linked to the Advanced Escort/Prometheus class variants. It becomes a skill when the aforementioned ship is you current ship and disappears when/if you switch to another ship.

Either that or another way to do it would be to have it be an unlocked skill. Such as once you reach the point in game that you can start putting skill points into the advanced escort/Prometheus class variants you fully level that "skill box" and the skill becomes available to you. The skill could simply be grayed out when jumping into another ship that is not compatible with it.

Either way the same goal is achieved, you can use the Multi Vectoring Assault mode in this one ship type and no others.

I don't think it limits its use at all, you use the mode to destroy enemy ships and having it anywhere else would be pointless. Although I get the wow factor from what your talking about, it would be fun to just fly around in three ships in concert.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-04-2010, 05:24 PM
MVA along with galaxy separation is something i can live without until they give us full 360 degree space movement..i mean we cant even loop, barrel roll and with power drain added to reverse (OP assault mode it seems)

So the gimmick of MVA is something that is nice, but if you ask me they have other things that count more..space 2.5 is a bit meh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-04-2010, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
Ah sorry i didn't post that because i thought it would be obvious. :p

I haven't seen an example of this in game but the skill should be tied to the class of ship it applies to. In this case since its only on one ship type it would be linked to the Advanced Escort/Prometheus class variants. It becomes a skill when the aforementioned ship is you current ship and disappears when/if you switch to another ship.

Either that or another way to do it would be to have it be an unlocked skill. Such as once you reach the point in game that you can start putting skill points into the advanced escort/Prometheus class variants you fully level that "skill box" and the skill becomes available to you. The skill could simply be grayed out when jumping into another ship that is not compatible with it.

Either way the same goal is achieved, you can use the Multi Vectoring Assault mode in this one ship type and no others.

I don't think it limits its use at all, you use the mode to destroy enemy ships and having it anywhere else would be pointless. Although I get the wow factor from what your talking about, it would be fun to just fly around in three ships in concert.
yes thats what i ment when saying it was any RA level ship...i.e. you had to be the rank of rear admiral AND have this item/console also it has to be a tier 5 ship (the ones you unlock when you become RA, so puting multi-vectoring on say, a constitution class ship wouldn't work, or putting it on a defiant class ship wouldn't work since those are tier 1 and 4 respectively) .. that way those that don't want multi-vectoring don't need to have it... and those that do can have it... making it a trade off between having more consoles or multi-vectoring, so as to make the decision not something to take lightly... also having it a c-store item would mean more profits for the game meaning more money to spend on making more content =3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-04-2010, 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Than View Post
MVA along with galaxy separation is something i can live without until they give us full 360 degree space movement..i mean we cant even loop, barrel roll and with power drain added to reverse (OP assault mode it seems)

So the gimmick of MVA is something that is nice, but if you ask me they have other things that count more..space 2.5 is a bit meh.
I agree this game has other things that need to be addressed but were not talking about those things in this thread. You knew this before posting here

Quote:
yes thats what i ment when saying it was any RA level ship...i.e. you had to be the rank of rear admiral AND have this item/console also it has to be a tier 5 ship (the ones you unlock when you become RA, so puting multi-vectoring on say, a constitution class ship wouldn't work, or putting it on a defiant class ship wouldn't work since those are tier 1 and 4 respectively) .. that way those that don't want multi-vectoring don't need to have it... and those that do can have it... making it a trade off between having more consoles or multi-vectoring, so as to make the decision not something to take lightly... also having it a c-store item would mean more profits for the game meaning more money to spend on making more content =3
No i cant agree to this idea for a few reasons. If I'm reading your post correctly with the system that you have setup ANY RA ship would have MVA unlocked once you unlocked the skill and acquired a console part. This idea wouldn't make sense because of the sovereign/assault cruiser and Luna/Recon Sci Vessel. Now there is evidence that the Sovereign was designed to separate from some concept sketches that Ive seen but nothing to the point of being three combat vessels. The cryptic designs are up in the air they all look so integrated that they would have no separation capability anyways. The MVA Mode should be advanced escort only since its the only one that makes sense to have it.

I would only support this as a C-Store unlock IF it had no game play effect at all. I don't believe in buying yourself new skills to get the "gamers edge" or something along those lines. Besides my personal preference you would have a balance issue if it effected the game so much to justify spending money on it. This is not even going into any community problems that would start from the "OMG they get ___ thats not fair, i paid ___ and didn't get___ so im quitting! " bs that we have already seen with things that don't effect gameplay.

I see what your saying but I am not looking for a game changer here. I'm looking for an ability that visually would be fun to have but functions similarly to many of the other buffs in the game from a gameplay standpoint.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-05-2010, 09:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
I agree this game has other things that need to be addressed but were not talking about those things in this thread. You knew this before posting here



No i cant agree to this idea for a few reasons. If I'm reading your post correctly with the system that you have setup ANY RA ship would have MVA unlocked once you unlocked the skill and acquired a console part. This idea wouldn't make sense because of the sovereign/assault cruiser and Luna/Recon Sci Vessel. Now there is evidence that the Sovereign was designed to separate from some concept sketches that Ive seen but nothing to the point of being three combat vessels. The cryptic designs are up in the air they all look so integrated that they would have no separation capability anyways. The MVA Mode should be advanced escort only since its the only one that makes sense to have it.

I would only support this as a C-Store unlock IF it had no game play effect at all. I don't believe in buying yourself new skills to get the "gamers edge" or something along those lines. Besides my personal preference you would have a balance issue if it effected the game so much to justify spending money on it. This is not even going into any community problems that would start from the "OMG they get ___ thats not fair, i paid ___ and didn't get___ so im quitting! " bs that we have already seen with things that don't effect gameplay.

I see what your saying but I am not looking for a game changer here. I'm looking for an ability that visually would be fun to have but functions similarly to many of the other buffs in the game from a gameplay standpoint.
this is true, the community would whine about it... that was why i was trying to make it as balanced as possible
to this effect it should be available on all RA ships as well, i know it's not canon, but if it was just on escort ships then all the RAs would just fly escort ships and people would whine about escort ships being OP...
it's several years in the future since multi-vectoring was introduced so who's to say science ships can't be refitted with multi-vectoring ability though? =/
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