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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-06-2010, 10:12 AM
I still run into a lot of feds who use all beam arrays. I guess the beam any direction works well on pve maps, but it's sadly underpowered for most pvp situations.

I seen some feds put the hurt on in a ship designed for pvp and a player spec'd for pvp.

So, not discounting lots of effort. I read this as pretty much.. Nerf Klink dmg, cause I want to be able to do pve and pvp and treat each the same.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-06-2010, 10:21 AM
How does any of this prove there is a problem?

There are so many variables I dont know how this could be taken seriously.

What type of players?

Is it feds just wanting dailies done and running into groups of Klingons solo to end match faster or actual pvp groups?

Are the Klingon groups random or set groups?

What loadouts are people using? E.g. if your using the "free" shield that came with ship then your not gonna last long....What trype and level of weapons are they using (not all will have mark x equiped) and some maybe running obscure torpedo boat loadouts etc.

Can you vouch for all the players that participated in these matches you took data from?

as in what type of players pvp'rs or pve just doing dailies?

Were they trying to win and all grouped up or all solo?


If just joining random groups this is the risk you run and is same for both sides.

A Fed or Klingon that knows how to set up there ship (any type) for damage will do alot more damage than the average player that has not set up ship. This is something that you can search forums for but tbh is down to experience and trying different consoles, abilities etc to suit your playstyle.

I play both Fed and Klingon and the experience of players in different matches can vary greatly....from groups that stack target subsytems to groups where they think Klingons can shoot while still cloaked because they cant tell they have been jammed. (as in people that know the game, what abilities do and play as a team as opposed to those that dont)


Try some fed v fed and i think you will find exactly the same. The winning side will do more damage. That would at least give you something to compare the fed v klingon against.

If Klingons still do substantially more damage you may have a point. However, I think its more likely your just joining inexperienced or "just want to get the dailies done" groups.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-06-2010, 10:36 AM
There's one conclusion you can draw from this data - WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SPECULATE ON A CAUSE - which is that Fed PUGs lose a lot more FvK than they win.

Doubtless there are reasons for this; however, think for a second about the consequences rather than the causes. Fed PUGs lose a lot. What effect does this have on the popularity, sustainability, and entertainment value of PvP? What does it do to the future of the game? Of PvP within STO? Does it constitute a problem? Should something be done?

When it comes down to it, players who lose games may deserve it, but perpetuating a system where people lose all the time... well, the "winners" may deserve what they get in the end as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-06-2010, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostish
I still run into a lot of feds who use all beam arrays. I guess the beam any direction works well on pve maps, but it's sadly underpowered for most pvp situations.

I seen some feds put the hurt on in a ship designed for pvp and a player spec'd for pvp.

So, not discounting lots of effort. I read this as pretty much.. Nerf Klink dmg, cause I want to be able to do pve and pvp and treat each the same.
There is absolutely no problem with beams in pvp, if you play to their strengths.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-06-2010, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgecase View Post
There's one conclusion you can draw from this data - WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SPECULATE ON A CAUSE - which is that Fed PUGs lose a lot more FvK than they win.

Doubtless there are reasons for this; however, think for a second about the consequences rather than the causes. Fed PUGs lose a lot. What effect does this have on the popularity, sustainability, and entertainment value of PvP? What does it do to the future of the game? Of PvP within STO? Does it constitute a problem? Should something be done?

When it comes down to it, players who lose games may deserve it, but perpetuating a system where people lose all the time... well, the "winners" may deserve what they get in the end as well.
I understand what you are saying, Edgecase, but that can be a difficult problem to solve correctly. Perhaps one solution is having premade teams fight only other premade teams, and PUGs fight only other PUGs - that means separate queues for premade teams and individuals. Spreading the queues even thinner will probably be detrimental to the whole PvP experience.

I certainly don't think one playstyle should have to be "dumbed down" to cater to the other. Maybe another solution is to just auto-buff the PUGs when they are facing premade teams. In my opinion, competitive matches, regardless of team makeup, should be the goal, but not at the expense of reducing the enjoyment of either side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-06-2010, 11:19 AM
I didn't say they are not used in pvp or useless. I run with a lot of Dual Beam Banks. Certain abilities require beams..

But if your loadout is all Beam Arrays, stress Arrays then your hoping to tickle everything around you without serious affect. Go on, talk about broadsiding etc.. It's not a typical load out for dps.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-06-2010, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinja
I understand what you are saying, Edgecase, but that can be a difficult problem to solve correctly. Perhaps one solution is having premade teams fight only other premade teams, and PUGs fight only other PUGs - that means separate queues for premade teams and individuals. Spreading the queues even thinner will probably be detrimental to the whole PvP experience.

I certainly don't think one playstyle should have to be "dumbed down" to cater to the other. Maybe another solution is to just auto-buff the PUGs when they are facing premade teams. In my opinion, competitive matches, regardless of team makeup, should be the goal, but not at the expense of reducing the enjoyment of either side.
I never run in a premade and my win ratio is about the same as listed. I agree with most others here, it's playstyle. I hung up my vent when I hung up wow/eq raiding.

usually and this factor wasn't put in.. Feds get more wins in off peak hours. Can't seem to get a full klink group for nothing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-06-2010, 11:56 AM
lol anyone trying to start some form of discussion is met with 'L2P', 'stfu noob' and 'TEAMWORK'.

Yup, sounds very much like the community in that other game, called WoW.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-06-2010, 12:04 PM
I would like to see the responses be labeled with what side they represent in PvP.

Not agreeing with the OP or disagreeing, but the theme seems to be, Klingons simply play better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-06-2010, 12:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostish
I didn't say they are not used in pvp or useless. I run with a lot of Dual Beam Banks. Certain abilities require beams..

But if your loadout is all Beam Arrays, stress Arrays then your hoping to tickle everything around you without serious affect. Go on, talk about broadsiding etc.. It's not a typical load out for dps.
There are more things in life than DPS.
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