Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-08-2010, 07:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
I hate to repeat myself, but after the Dominion War, Worf (the ONLY Klingon in Starfleet), went back to Quo'Nos with Martok. He didn't open a Starfleet recruitment office there.

Of course it would be better if Klingons had the same PvE and all, and Klingons were exclusive to the faction. But the damage is done. And there is no reason to repeat that mistake with the other KDF species. I would die for some Nausicaans on my Ferengi ship. You know, its canon that Ferengi hire Nausicaan bullies. But that doesn't justify Nausicaans to be available for Fed players. If really everything was available for Feds, no-one would go Klingon anymore - because the lack-of-PvE-damage is already done.

Gorn and Nausicaans (along with Ferengi) are the only species you can't make with the alien creator, due to the unique head shape. So they belong to the very few things the Klingons have left to appeal. Of course, 'a Gorn could personally decide to not fight for the KDF', but if this Gorn is already so open-minded, he has to consider that staying with the Klingons is for the good of the many.

Ironically, really every Ferengi player I met so far would rather join the KDF or a neutral faction, or be anywhere but in Starfleet. But we have no choice there either. All we can do is whine and insist that we don't belong in Starfleet, and that we really really want to be re-united with our Orion and Nausicaan business associates. It would make perfect sense, it would be canon. But it will probably not happen because it would mean the devs have to give the Klingons another playable species. Devil, holy water, end of story.
The Ferengi might do business with the Klingons but they wouldn't be warriors. They never had a side they were willing to do business with anyone including the Federation and Empire. That's also cannon. Of course I don't really remember the Gorn being that much for the greater good, I think a Gorn could make that call he would have reason enought to do it. It seems your making this arguement because the Klingons got hosed, which we agree they did. As I mentioned elsewhere on the thread Cryptic is planning to make Joined Trill playable on the Klingon side, are you going to make the same arguement that it doesn't feel right or let it happen because it benefits your faction now?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-08-2010, 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STObee
Would there be Gorn females?


Okay, let's be serious -

The Klingon faction was totally hosed by Cryptic. They have next to no customization of ships or characters, next to no PvE, and as we all know PvP in STO is barely tollerable.

So, is it really in STO players' interests to continue to take things that are only available to the Klingon faction and move them over to the Federation side? Or is it more reasonable to take those same resources and provide the 3rd world Klingon faction with more content, to make it a more livable experience, so that there are still a reasonable number of people willing to play the "other" side?

If your heart is really set on playing a Gorn there is always the option of playing one in the Klingon faction.
And what if offering these to play Fed-side for a fee subsidizes development of more Klingon customization assets?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-08-2010, 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
I never said I think Fed Klingons are a good idea. In fact I think they are a big part of the problem - "no-one plays KDF". The Gorn feel much more right with the Klingons than with the Feds.
Nobody plays KDF because KDF sucks unless you enjoy repeating the same PvP maps until your eyes bleed, which is a deficiency that should be addressed. Secondarily, nobody plays KDF because KDF customization options suck. Which is a deficiency that should be addressed.

As more and more of the 'casual' population runs into the RA5 wall Fed-side, the KDF will have more of a probable impact on subscription retention by offering something new to do... if they get the Season 2 content out fast enough.

However, offering KDF-side species for a fee in Starfleet isn't canonically outlandish (and much less so for the species from the Klingon client/conquered states than Klingons themselves), might whet some peoples' appetite to play the 'real' deal, and increases the general pool of money to pay for new content which will probably be poured more heavily into Klingons as they become more important for replay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-08-2010, 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Nobody plays KDF because KDF sucks unless you enjoy repeating the same PvP maps until your eyes bleed, which is a deficiency that should be addressed. Secondarily, nobody plays KDF because KDF customization options suck. Which is a deficiency that should be addressed.

As more and more of the 'casual' population runs into the RA5 wall Fed-side, the KDF will have more of a probable impact on subscription retention by offering something new to do... if they get the Season 2 content out fast enough.

However, offering KDF-side species for a fee in Starfleet isn't canonically outlandish (and much less so for the species from the Klingon client/conquered states than Klingons themselves), might whet some peoples' appetite to play the 'real' deal, and increases the general pool of money to pay for new content which will probably be poured more heavily into Klingons as they become more important for replay.
+1

Agreed wholeheartedly.
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# 25
04-08-2010, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandax75 View Post
The Ferengi might do business with the Klingons but they wouldn't be warriors. They never had a side they were willing to do business with anyone including the Federation and Empire. That's also cannon. Of course I don't really remember the Gorn being that much for the greater good, I think a Gorn could make that call he would have reason enought to do it. It seems your making this arguement because the Klingons got hosed, which we agree they did. As I mentioned elsewhere on the thread Cryptic is planning to make Joined Trill playable on the Klingon side, are you going to make the same arguement that it doesn't feel right or let it happen because it benefits your faction now?
There's a detail you missed. Joined Trill are not a regular playable species. They are a lifetime (or preorder?) bonus, like Liberated Borg. That alone makes them a 'rare' species in any faction.
You ask for Gorn, a regular playable species, to be available in the other faction. Its not even a C-Store species. This is like asking for Bajorans to be playable in the KDF. Nothing would make them as rare as they should be. There is nothing the Klingons have that is equally 'exclusive' as a Joined Trill. It does feel wrong, as much as Jadzia and Curzon Dax got along with Klingons. But it really doesn't worry me because Trill will be limited and not overrun the KDF.

I have my Fed toons, I have my KDF toon. I play both factions, so sorry if I don't fit in your 'u r just a frustrated Klingon' picture. There is no 'my faction' and 'the other's faction'.

As for canon (one n), Ferengi have good business relations with Nausicaans and the Breen, and they build up contacts with Gamma Quadrant species. Even if 'the Ferengi' isn't the most valuable ally for the Klingons, 'the Ferengi's allies' would be. Plus, Ferengi are a C-Store species and not everyone is willing to pay extra for more species. Ferengi are already rare on Fed side, like Tellarites and probably the upcoming Rigellians and Pakleds will be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-08-2010, 09:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
There's a detail you missed. Joined Trill are not a regular playable species. They are a lifetime (or preorder?) bonus, like Liberated Borg.
Correction: They're for the DDE package, which will be offered pretty much indefinitely. And I can't toss a tribble in ESD without hitting one (and have one myself).

That said, I couldn't care less about their rarity in canon. People enjoy playing unusual things and unusual things are exactly what I think it's reasonable to charge extra for in the Cstore.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-08-2010, 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
There's a detail you missed. Joined Trill are not a regular playable species. They are a lifetime (or preorder?) bonus, like Liberated Borg. That alone makes them a 'rare' species in any faction.
You ask for Gorn, a regular playable species, to be available in the other faction. Its not even a C-Store species. This is like asking for Bajorans to be playable in the KDF. Nothing would make them as rare as they should be. There is nothing the Klingons have that is equally 'exclusive' as a Joined Trill. It does feel wrong, as much as Jadzia and Curzon Dax got along with Klingons. But it really doesn't worry me because Trill will be limited and not overrun the KDF.

I have my Fed toons, I have my KDF toon. I play both factions, so sorry if I don't fit in your 'u r just a frustrated Klingon' picture. There is no 'my faction' and 'the other's faction'.

As for canon (one n), Ferengi have good business relations with Nausicaans and the Breen, and they build up contacts with Gamma Quadrant species. Even if 'the Ferengi' isn't the most valuable ally for the Klingons, 'the Ferengi's allies' would be. Plus, Ferengi are a C-Store species and not everyone is willing to pay extra for more species. Ferengi are already rare on Fed side, like Tellarites and probably the upcoming Rigellians and Pakleds will be.
Well the basis of your stance seems to be the Klingons get hosed so you don't want the other side to have something that really isn't part of that faction to begin with. I'm fine with making Gorn for the Federation a C-store option as that fits in with my background for them. They wouldn't join Starfleet wholesale but there would be a small number that disagree with the Klingon take over .

I don't have a problem with Joined Trill being available to the Klingons I'm just curious to see what they do to justify it "in game". Just as liberated borg should be available to all sides since the Borg took whoever got in their sights.

The Ferengi, as in the Ferengi Alliance would not be an ally of the Klingons just as they wouldn't be an ally of the Federation. They would do business with both and I'm sure would be glad to introduce the Klingons to the Breen and Nausicaans, for a price, but as far as being a formal ally? No way, having the Federation at war with you isn't good for business just like having the Klingon Empire mad at you isn't..both ends against the middle would be the Alliances stance in this war.

Would what be great, but will most likely never happen is having a third faction made up of Gorn, Ferengi and Orions who are not Fed or Klingon but out for themselves
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# 28
04-08-2010, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Correction: They're for the DDE package, which will be offered pretty much indefinitely. And I can't toss a tribble in ESD without hitting one (and have one myself).

That said, I couldn't care less about their rarity in canon. People enjoy playing unusual things and unusual things are exactly what I think it's reasonable to charge extra for in the Cstore.

Exactly. As I stated I would have no problem with the Gorn for the Federation being a C-store item.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-08-2010, 11:05 PM
I didn't mean Trill are limited to a specific number, just that not every player has access to them. Liberated Borg, at least as BO, are available for both factions. Is that different with the playable ones? If so, I'm all for making them available for both factions.

I also agree that Ferengi don't belong in any faction but a neutral one. But we don't have a neutral faction (yet), so they should be playable for any side. I'd also give that to the Orions. As far as I understand, the Orion Syndicate made a deal with the KDF, not the general population of Orions.
Nausicaans lack of a united government that could make a choice like that, they should be mercenaries and pirates and would fit better in a neutral faction, too.

But alas, we have no neutral faction. Every side has some species that don't really belong there. And I think making everything available everywhere - especially taking away more from the already suffering KDF side - will hurt the game balance even more. Fed Klingons are already a big issue, no need to push that further with other species. Once the KDF has more (more of anything), maybe. As a fair trade. Feds get Gorn, KDF gets Saurians. Or whatever. But right now, the Klingons have a serious lack of species selection, its maybe 1/3 of the Fed options (C-Store and gender choice counted), so I don't see the fair trade at all.
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# 30
04-09-2010, 03:10 PM
Actually, the only reason I plan on playing KDF at all is to be a Gorn, for whatever reason, as a little kid I really liked TOS episode where Kirk fought the Gorn. Personally, I'm glad they are KDF, gives me a chance to try that side.
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