Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
04-08-2010, 06:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
I would like to see separate queues, one for random pvp (aka you enter solo), and one for team play. That way everyone is happy, and you dont need to split the community into the "casuals" and smelly elitists.
Dalnar,

Perfectly reasonable suggestion, and there have been several this thread - with the exception of the OP whose entire point was to tell a story why he thinks premades are bad for the game.

I don't think STO will be making changes that separate premade and pugs just because other games have done it, at least not yet. The STO PvP community simply isn't big enough to divide into little groups right now. Adding queues for 1v1 on the other hand wouldn't divide the community.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
04-08-2010, 07:27 AM
Problem with duels is that games are usually balanced on team play, not duels. Thus duels can create some "imbalanced" scenarios, and huge amount of whines.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
04-08-2010, 07:53 AM
Guild Wars:
Random Arenas for PUGS
Team Arenas for (wait for it) teams.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
04-08-2010, 07:57 AM
The reason this thread has become so derailed and trolled is due the part of the OP's argument where he says pvp is being ruined by premades and because the OP is so easy to troll. In his analogy he states that all premades purposely go find pug groups to stomp on, tell them to l2p, and then get mad at the pug when they don't want to.

In all the times I've played with my premade we've never told a pug or premade "l2p noobs" or "spend more time playing" during a fight or right after we win a fight without cause. I have however, when playing against pugs and premades been called a cheater, exploiter, hacker, and so on because they don't understand that teamwork + skill knowledge + individual skill beats individual skill. I cant count how many times vs other players that I've used target subsystem shields 3 on an escort and then proceeded to destroy it in 5 seconds only to be called a hack cause according to him its impossible to do what i just did. Then when I explain how to do it, the guys says "oh cool i gota try that, thanks for the tip!" So right there I went from a cheater to a helpful player. This is why some premades, but not all, might say l2p. I'm sure there are your leet premades who think they're amazing and do like stomping noobs and then taunt them but don't generalize cause just as many bad things can be said about pugs.

As for the second point of the thread, having the ability to queue up against premade teams and fleets would be a welcomed feature. Right now though, premades don't have that luxuary of always knowing they'll fight against a premade so they have to join the regular queue in hopes that they do face off against one. Sometimes you get lucky and face a premade and sometimes you get a pug who thinks the premade is after them. Also, there is no feature in game that allows premades to set up matches or find each other. The closest thing to that is what akumarev has started with his premade pvp channel where he's trying to gather all the premades on there so premades can set up matches and each join an empty queue so they can have a fight. I understand that fighting against a premade in a pug can suck but its not the premades fault so dont hate on them. Its not like every premade is purposely seeking out pugs to pwn on. Also its not like they have the ability to always avoid pugs. Premades aren't going around seeing which map has a bunch of pugs they can pwn on simply because they don't have the ability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
04-08-2010, 08:13 AM
to the OP, you are MISSING the point. PVP is in its very nature a competative event. Nothing drives the competition more than organization and teamwork. Think about this if you can try; klingons enter a FVK, they can not be in a fleet not be in a vent channel but can sit there cloaked out of range and strategize on what to do who will target who who will heal who will be locked down ect.....Essentially turning that PUG of klingons into a tightly organized group with strategy and tactis ready to go and destroy the enemy. A premade does not always have the time to sit in game and get ready like that.....that is where being in a Premade group is important. Random chaos and button mashing in hopes that there will be a understood form of teamwork happening without any real communication is a pipedream. By your loic of thinking that Premades ruin your fun, then klingon PUGs that play well together ruin your fun as well due ot the fact they can get do everything a premade can do previous to any shots being fired.
As for your analogy of a pro football team VS a non pro team....I have coached football for over 7 seasons, it is completely ignorant for one team to think that the comp will be weak or that they are going to steam roll the other team due to all of them having the same name (fleet tag). As wrath said He has beaten fed premades before with a klingon PUG. So I guess by your logic he doesn't need to que up for a "PUG que" then because he is a good player that teamed up with other PUG klingons that were good as well?
Bottom line, if you want to get better then sitting in a PUG will NOT do that for you, if your goal is to PEWPEW with your lasers then go to the B'tran nebula and fly into an anomoly and kill some enemies there.....wait those must be a Premade group too because they are all on the same team too?
Your posts scream of a disgruntaled beaten and broken fed player that can not except that a game with pvp will eventually push players that want to get better into an organized format.
I am sorry that you can not find a fleet that fits you, if you spent half the time looking for a fleet that you spend whinign on the forums then you mgiht find one for you. Hell you might even be able to get a Premade yourself and get better at playing too.
Bottom line even with a PUG / premade que system there is NOTHING stopping a fleet from queing up going in to the PUG fights. The people that have contradicted you have done so in hopes that you will eventually see that in order to become the best player you can be it takes learning from others and WITH others.
I am done trying ot antagonize you with ****y little posts this is an effort from one "premade pvper" to a non pvper. If you want good PVP with a real level of comp then get a group of friends or in fleet, you do not need 5 we go in with 3-4 sometimes and get a PUG out of it. Learn to play well together and enjoy a higher more compitent level of PVP that unless you do this you will never be bale to achieve. BTW you can get free VOIP software if you really wanted to try using voice chat.
Lastly....I could take 4 of my fleetmates, we could all get off ventrilo and still beat the ever loving doodoo out of the enemy, why? becuase we learned to play with each other and we all know our roles on a team....and it is NOT DPS down the enemy.
Jarus I feel bad for you, your words of hurt and pain and disappointment (as I and many others percieve them to be. SO it doesn't matter how you wanted them to come across, they came across as a beaten man) show a player that has been beaten into submission to the point where he must comne on the forums and scream for Premades to no longer fight against him.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
04-08-2010, 08:17 AM
Pugs vs Premade

I my self have played in Pugs and Premade teams using vent. 9 times out of 10 the Premade will stomp the heck out of the PUG. I can't see how this fun for any one. I certainly do not get any statisfaction out of tearing a pug group up.

It gets old and boring. On the same token I have played in alot of pug groups. Often I am the one who will group feds up. I have been in pug groups that are slaughtered and sometimes a pug group that rules the field.

I use the PUG group pvp to learn more about my ship and other skills. I simply do not let a loss bother me especially when I know we are up against a Premade calling targets. Calling focus fire is effective and demoralizing. Often times I have been in premades that do exude a certain elite obnoxious attitude and I can see where this is a turn off to the casual player.

It would be nice if things could be set up better separating pugs from teams. But as some one pointed out the PVP community is pretty small at this point. I can see where it will be a while before this happens.

Until then...make the best of it. Don't let it get to you and when you can kick some butt. Also consider this...often times you will not see some one who normally works in premades alone with out his pack. In other words...they avoid being part of a pug....That is because that player tends to be weak with out back up. Consider the source. ;-)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
04-08-2010, 09:37 AM
I think if they allow 1v1 pvp matches, then they should allow us to use our Bridge Officers in those matches.

Oh and... I prefer Pugs, unless it is a premade with guildies, because I get more challenge that way. I never know if the feds beside me will be good or bad. I like to find out. If they are bad, then I go solo and die trying to win hahaha.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
04-08-2010, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naevius
Guild Wars:
Random Arenas for PUGS
Team Arenas for (wait for it) teams.
o rly? is that why they removed team arenas because no one played it and the metagame got stagnant? oh, and what about team syncing to get premade groups into RA, ya that still happens. I did that all the time.

the only reason why the team stuff in gw exists is because there is a tangible reward for playing it that you can only get by playing in those arenas. In extension, there would have to be a tangible reward for teams playing in the "team arenas" that only they could get, like fame sticks, even better rewards, and stuff that the carebears would cry about for not being able to get because they can't get it without a premade.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
04-08-2010, 12:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
o rly? is that why they removed team arenas because no one played it and the metagame got stagnant? oh, and what about team syncing to get premade groups into RA, ya that still happens. I did that all the time.

the only reason why the team stuff in gw exists is because there is a tangible reward for playing it that you can only get by playing in those arenas. In extension, there would have to be a tangible reward for teams playing in the "team arenas" that only they could get, like fame sticks, even better rewards, and stuff that the carebears would cry about for not being able to get because they can't get it without a premade.
Yes, there were ways to rig the random arenas, and yes most good groups went to GvG instead of TA. However, my point was that it makes sense to split the two types of play, because organized teams will almost always trash PUGs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
04-08-2010, 12:44 PM
bad people never understand...

yea you may start solo, and encoutner premade, but as you Q , play the game, and know people, you end up meetign godo pvper, and start makign a lil group when you pvp, wich will make pug encounter very easier, and then you get to create you own 5 man with friend in pvp,

this is nto everything, not because you have a premade that you will be good

some terrible premade out there... soemtimes, i join alone with with a friend is a pug group vs a premade, and the premade got destroy becuase me / my friend made the whole damn diference

and damnit, me a a friend in a game... 2 vs 4, and we won 15-0, yea that how bad people can be

so you loss is abotu 2 things : you low skill level, and the fact that you dotn find anyone to play with

ist a MMO , wake up, no one will be equal with flower and love liek most n00b wish,

skill + number = win
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