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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Edit: I was reading through the comments and noticed a disparity for the comments below, where some players do not see any of these problems, while others do. For all intents and purposes, I am referring to PVP at Rear Admiral and Brigadier General rank (aka endgame pvp).

While pre-"Endgame" PVP can exist (by refusing to spend skill points for the level up), this discussion is primarily focused on endgame PVP. In fact, most of the issues below exist even for pre-"Endgame". The only one that may be contested is the player population numbers. However, that is likely because most Fed characters are already at endgame.


Edit #2: Cryptic has posted a QA page with answer to some of the questions below. It appears to be primarily focused on feature additions, but still does not address any of the balance related issues. Let's keep this thread going.

I have quoted and added the responses to those questions answered.

Also, if you have any questions for Cryptic, please put it in red text and I will try to update this first post with your question.


Hi Devs',
Can we get some input on what if anything is in the works for addressing the concerns on the Fed and Kling side for PvP? Fed's say Klings win too much, but Klings say Feds are just bad players.

From the Engineering reports April 2nd Engineering Report, all I see are:
  • PVP Map exploit and bug fixes
  • PVP scoreboard fixes
  • Salvage Operation not working properly
This list is pretty meager when you consider that the PVP Feedback is the second most active one in the Feedback section. On top of this, the topics regularly spill into the other Feedback forums (and beyond). Are any other items being considered?

I can think of a few things that should be added to the list:

Disproportionate player numbers:
A quick look at the PVP Queue tells you that a lot more Feds queue up than Klings. So all other things being equal, there will be proportionally more bad players on the Fed side. Is anything in the works to address this? i.e. larger maps/teams so that individual player skill matter less

Two responses... sorta:
Quote:
Q: Trible_Hunter - Will we ever see teams larger then 5?
A: We are looking at offering 10-man teams for some upcoming maps, and perhaps even more. We will definitely look more closely at this when we release open persistent PvP maps.
Quote:
Q: akumarev - Will there be an option for mixed faction teams I.E. fed / klingon teams together?
A: This is not something we ever considered, though it is an interesting idea.
Faction-only chat:
Another item would be that there is no faction chat. In PVP, zone chat and local chat are shared by Feds and Klings. This is terrible when either side are trying to plan out tactics.

Response from QA:
Quote:
Q: HeathenStorm - Will we see 'auto grouping' in PVP matches? Or at the very least will there be individual chat channels for the side you're on?
A: We have not plans on auto grouping. We do want to provide better tools for grouping. Faction based chat channels is one of the features we want to add.
PVP Quest Descriptions:
PVP Quest descriptions are very vague right now. It is hard to tell if it is a bug or if it is working as intended, but with the wrong description. For example:
"Hostile Engagement (FvK) - Capture and Hold" counts only for Reclaim Neutral Zone
"Hostile Engagement (FvK) - Arena" only counts for Pacify Enemy Heroes

I'm guessing the idea is that capture and hold is sort of like reclaiming territory, whereas arena more implies killing enemy players (see Heroes). This is just a case of bad labeling on the quests. However, the existing quest descriptions mention a whole lot about "border skirmish" and "hostile takeover", which is mentioned iin any of the PVP queues (at least on the Fed side).

No response yet.

Cloak/Cloak Detection
This one is probably the BIGGEST topic in FvK pvp. It is fairly or unfairly blamed as the source of most of the PvP grief. I'll leave solutions to this issue to you (the Devs'), as it is like dousing oneself in gasoline and standing in the middle of a Fire Throwing show...

No response yet.

Improvements on Mask Energy Signature
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
4) Cloak isn't going to go away, but Federation should have better stealth detection. Maybe make it so I can't pop my cooldowns and cloak right up to 2-3km and kill you if you're not paying full attention? Maybe 5km range or something? Also I think everyone agrees mask energy signature should actually do something. I dare someone to argue with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinJarate
i thought the consensus on MES during beta was that it worked and functioned exactly like cloak, and caused players to moan about it citing that "theres no reason to roll a klink".

admittedly i only heard this from 4 people in zone chat claiming to have been around for CB testing, so i just filed this concern under a rug.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
A happy medium maybe? 15km range? So I can't say "Oh hey 30km away there's the escort I just killed in two seconds I'm going to go hunt it down again!"
No response yet.

PVP Map Pacing: Salvage Operation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwen
Salvage operations is such a slow game now, so slow I only play enough for my dailies and then a few more and log off for the day. It's just simply boring.
No response yet.

Capturing Points: Klingons taking more time to capture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by vontrox View Post
Fix capping the points in Salvage games, Feds take over 1 point within 30 seconds or less, klingons have to wait way to long before the point caps to their side. It is a serious bug and ruins the PvP Salvage map.
No response yet.

Alert System

I'm gonna include this into the questions. It since it sounds more like an RP related suggestion, but may be somehow worked to enhance PVP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpieri View Post
A better idea is to incorporate the federation alert system - Green Alert, Yellow Allert, and Red Alert - we klingons and one day Romulans will want to catch you with your pants down and not be 100% battle ready able to fire on us the moment we decloak. Its only fair right - Federation don't go exploring with shields up and phasers banks fully charged. Just imagine how the ship your trying to rescue will view that as? Talk about about the diplomatic repercussions that the Federation would have to face.
No response yet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-11-2010, 05:13 PM
No longer relevant since we have a dev response: Dev's current response for PVP. Keeping this post reserved for adding more questions from the community.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-11-2010, 05:17 PM
As far as the uncloaking issue is concerned.. my first thought has been that the queue up time for power, i.e. shields, weapons etc, needs to be slowed down just a touch.. just enough to really make the decision as to when and how to uncloak much more tactical and strategic
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-11-2010, 05:19 PM
I do agree that most, if not all of these issues should be seen to.

There is definatly a lack of DEV attention to the klingons (seen the kling forums? 1 post on 1st page)

I aint got time for a long post, just showing my support, and i would like to point out, in a very respectfull mannor.....theres no such word as klink.
Please check my sig.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-11-2010, 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efaris
Fed's say Klinks win too much, but Klinks say Feds are just bad players.
.
no, good feds say that feds are just bad players. good teams can easily win.

this is coming from a fed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-11-2010, 06:11 PM
I want you to know that I'm biased toward Klingon and I've posted several threads with my opinion on the matter, but you made some excellent points.

1) Larger maps would give greater benefit to Federation players without upsetting overall balance. Sadly Feds might have to wait a very long time for these maps, but personally I can say that I would love even a 15v15 map, yet preferably larger like 20v20. I would definitely queue for it. However, other Klingons might be more inclined to queue for a 5v5 and toy with Feds.

2) I think faction team chat speaks for itself. Why the heck not? It's not like you necessarily have to eliminate cross-faction chat. I don't see any harm in team chat.

3) PvP quest descriptions are broken but I don't know if it's upsetting balance all that much. I agree with you, though.

4) Cloak isn't going to go away, but Federation should have better stealth detection. Maybe make it so I can't pop my cooldowns and cloak right up to 2-3km and kill you if you're not paying full attention? Maybe 5km range or something? Also I think everyone agrees mask energy signature should actually do something. I dare someone to argue with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-11-2010, 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
4) Cloak isn't going to go away, but Federation should have better stealth detection. Maybe make it so I can't pop my cooldowns and cloak right up to 2-3km and kill you if you're not paying full attention? Maybe 5km range or something? Also I think everyone agrees mask energy signature should actually do something. I dare someone to argue with that.
i thought the consensus on MES during beta was that it worked and functioned exactly like cloak, and caused players to moan about it citing that "theres no reason to roll a klink".

admittedly i only heard this from 4 people in zone chat claiming to have been around for CB testing, so i just filed this concern under a rug.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-11-2010, 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinJarate
i thought the consensus on MES during beta was that it worked and functioned exactly like cloak, and caused players to moan about it citing that "theres no reason to roll a klink"
A happy medium maybe? 15km range? So I can't say "Oh hey 30km away there's the escort I just killed in two seconds I'm going to go hunt it down again!"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-12-2010, 01:29 AM
Well the last time they touched pvp they messed it all up for two days. Just so happened to fall on the weekend on top of it. I would like to see everything people have mentioned in this whole post, but I would also like to see it working after they create it and put in place too.

Salvage operations is such a slow game now, so slow I only play enough for my dailies and then a few more and log off for the day. It's just simply boring.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-12-2010, 06:07 AM
Fix capping the points in Salvage games, Feds take over 1 point within 30 seconds or less, klingons have to wait way to long before the point caps to their side. It is a serious bug and ruins the PvP Salvage map.
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