Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 651
10-19-2010, 01:01 PM
I think you need to do a bit more research before deciding on Space Marines. They're an easy army for a newbie because they're easy to play, tough to kill, and generally forgiving on the tabletop.

The best advice you can get is to buy and read the main rulebook, and read about each faction on Lexicanum at length. Then if you still want to play Space Marines, then I'd recommend the Battleforce and a Librarian blister, not the AoBR set. Six months ago, I'd say yeah, buy the AoBR set... but back then it was $75 US. Now, at $90, it's not quite as good a value, especially since it doesn't give you a legal army, or a particularly good one even if it did.

Unless you want to play both Orks and Space Marines, in which case AoBR is a great value.

But seriously, 1) buy and read rulebook, 2) read about all the armies, 3) buy the codex for the army you want, 4) build an army from the codex, 5) buy models.

Like I said, Marines are good for a beginner... but the fewer Marine armies I see on the tabletop, the happier I am.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 652
10-19-2010, 01:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
I think you need to do a bit more research before deciding on Space Marines. They're an easy army for a newbie because they're easy to play, tough to kill, and generally forgiving on the tabletop.

The best advice you can get is to buy and read the main rulebook, and read about each faction on Lexicanum at length. Then if you still want to play Space Marines, then I'd recommend the Battleforce and a Librarian blister, not the AoBR set. Six months ago, I'd say yeah, buy the AoBR set... but back then it was $75 US. Now, at $90, it's not quite as good a value, especially since it doesn't give you a legal army, or a particularly good one even if it did.

Unless you want to play both Orks and Space Marines, in which case AoBR is a great value.

But seriously, 1) buy and read rulebook, 2) read about all the armies, 3) buy the codex for the army you want, 4) build an army from the codex, 5) buy models.

Like I said, Marines are good for a beginner... but the fewer Marine armies I see on the tabletop, the happier I am.
aobr is still $108 in canada >.> it actually went down from $150 last i saw it ^_^;
what do you mean by "legal army"

what army would you recommend? the necrons seem cool, with their ability to resurrect o.o;
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 653
10-19-2010, 01:19 PM
Necrons are utterly broken in fifth edition, and require a tactical genius to be played well. They're a third edition codex that hasn't aged well. Don't touch'em unless they get an update (which they are rumored to next year).

Personally, I've played every single army at least once, most proxied, but I have models for seven armies (with five more in the works). Right now I have 2500 points of Tau, 1500 points of Orks (those are my two main tournament armies), 1000 points of Chaos Daemons (my third main army, though not a tournament army), 1000 points of Deathwatch (using Codex: Space Marines), 1000 points of Grey Knights, 1000 points of Necrons, and 500 points of Imperial Guard. I've got lists for an Eldar army, a Dark Eldar army, a Tyranid army, and a Chaos Space Marines army in the works, as well as a second Imperial Guard army. So trust me, I know my armies.

That said, it depends on the play style you think you'd prefer. If I feel like playing a shooty army, I play my Tau. They're one of the codices that suffer a bit in fifth edition because half their rules don't work and half their units in their codex are useless, but they can be played competitively - and I do. If I want to play a close-combat oriented army, I play my Orks. They perform spectacularly in fifth edition, but everyone knows their tricks, so you gotta be careful. I never play my Necrons unless it's a friendly game and the mood strikes me. They can be fun, but I never expect to win with them. If I want to play an army that's strong but relies on good dice rolls to really do well, I'll play my Daemons - they're just fun because they're fairly random, from their deployment to the way they actually fight. Every now and then, when I feel like coming up with a fluffy battle, I'll play my Deathwatch, but honestly, the Space Marine codices usually bore the hell out of me, so that's not often. I haven't fielded my new Grey Knights army yet, but I'm eager to do so - they suffer badly in fifth (the only army worse than Necrons), but they can be fun to play. My Imperial Guard isn't a legal army list yet, so they haven't seen a tabletop, but Imperial Guard is fun just because you've got so many options. Want to run a mechanized infantry list, with veteran infantry in transports? You can do that. Want to throw wave after wave of untried infantry into the maw of the enemy, fighting a war of attrition? You can do that (and that's what Ravenstein does). Want to roll an armoured tank column onto the battlefield and sweep aside your opponent with the biggest tanks in the game? You can do that (and that's how my IG army is designed).

Of the armies I don't play yet, Tyranids are fun if you want to overrun your enemy with endless waves of gribbly space bugs (or, alternately, columns of monstrous creatures), Eldar are highly specialized and very versatile, but require a veteran player to play well. Same with Dark Eldar, but flavored differently. Sisters of Battle are fun from a fluff standpoint, but pretty boring on the tabletop in my opinion. Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with spikes. Only Thousand Sons interest me, from that codex.

Basically, go with whatever army strikes your fancy, but do your homework before deciding.

I started with something like 3000 points of Space Marines (a fairly large army) that I never freakin' play anymore. I don't even count them as one of my armies anymore, and half of them have been cut apart and reassembled as Grey Knights or Deathwatch.

Edit: I will say that one of the cool things about Space Marines is the different flavors you can play. Want to play a shooty Space Marine army with the ability to receive a charge? Space Wolves. Want to play Space Marines who are crazy about close combat, and do it better than everyone else? Blood Angels. Want to play a Space Marine army who hate psychic powers but excel at everything else? Black Templars. Want to play a Space Marine army that can field Terminators as troops or an entire army of bikes and skimmers? Dark Angels. Want to do a little of all of the above but specialize in nothing? Codex: Space Marines. Space Marines have five codices (seven if you include Daemonhunters (Grey Knights) and Chaos Space Marines), so you can pick your flavor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 654
10-19-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
Necrons are utterly broken in fifth edition, and require a tactical genius to be played well. They're a third edition codex that hasn't aged well. Don't touch'em unless they get an update (which they are rumored to next year).

Personally, I've played every single army at least once, most proxied, but I have models for seven armies (with five more in the works). Right now I have 2500 points of Tau, 1500 points of Orks (those are my two main tournament armies), 1000 points of Chaos Daemons (my third main army, though not a tournament army), 1000 points of Deathwatch (using Codex: Space Marines), 1000 points of Grey Knights, 1000 points of Necrons, and 500 points of Imperial Guard. I've got lists for an Eldar army, a Dark Eldar army, a Tyranid army, and a Chaos Space Marines army in the works, as well as a second Imperial Guard army. So trust me, I know my armies.

That said, it depends on the play style you think you'd prefer. If I feel like playing a shooty army, I play my Tau. They're one of the codices that suffer a bit in fifth edition because half their rules don't work and half their units in their codex are useless, but they can be played competitively - and I do. If I want to play a close-combat oriented army, I play my Orks. They perform spectacularly in fifth edition, but everyone knows their tricks, so you gotta be careful. I never play my Necrons unless it's a friendly game and the mood strikes me. They can be fun, but I never expect to win with them. If I want to play an army that's strong but relies on good dice rolls to really do well, I'll play my Daemons - they're just fun because they're fairly random, from their deployment to the way they actually fight. Every now and then, when I feel like coming up with a fluffy battle, I'll play my Deathwatch, but honestly, the Space Marine codices usually bore the hell out of me, so that's not often. I haven't fielded my new Grey Knights army yet, but I'm eager to do so - they suffer badly in fifth (the only army worse than Necrons), but they can be fun to play. My Imperial Guard isn't a legal army list yet, so they haven't seen a tabletop, but Imperial Guard is fun just because you've got so many options. Want to run a mechanized infantry list, with veteran infantry in transports? You can do that. Want to throw wave after wave of untried infantry into the maw of the enemy, fighting a war of attrition? You can do that (and that's what Ravenstein does). Want to roll an armoured tank column onto the battlefield and sweep aside your opponent with the biggest tanks in the game? You can do that (and that's how my IG army is designed).

Of the armies I don't play yet, Tyranids are fun if you want to overrun your enemy with endless waves of gribbly space bugs (or, alternately, columns of monstrous creatures), Eldar are highly specialized and very versatile, but require a veteran player to play well. Same with Dark Eldar, but flavored differently. Sisters of Battle are fun from a fluff standpoint, but pretty boring on the tabletop in my opinion. Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines with spikes. Only Thousand Sons interest me, from that codex.

Basically, go with whatever army strikes your fancy, but do your homework before deciding.

I started with something like 3000 points of Space Marines (a fairly large army) that I never freakin' play anymore. I don't even count them as one of my armies anymore, and half of them have been cut apart and reassembled as Grey Knights or Deathwatch.

Edit: I will say that one of the cool things about Space Marines is the different flavors you can play. Want to play a shooty Space Marine army with the ability to receive a charge? Space Wolves. Want to play Space Marines who are crazy about close combat, and do it better than everyone else? Blood Angels. Want to play a Space Marine army who hate psychic powers but excel at everything else? Black Templars. Want to play a Space Marine army that can field Terminators as troops or an entire army of bikes and skimmers? Dark Angels. Want to do a little of all of the above but specialize in nothing? Codex: Space Marines. Space Marines have five codices (seven if you include Daemonhunters (Grey Knights) and Chaos Space Marines), so you can pick your flavor.

i think i understood about half that =/..

i think i'll just go with the aobr... it's got a rule book and enough troops to get me started.... i doubt i'll really be playing much D: the nearest game senting is almost 100 miles away ~.~
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 655
10-19-2010, 01:51 PM
Fair enough. But to have a legal army you'll need to also buy one more Troops choice. So, another Tactical Squad or a Scout Squad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 656
10-19-2010, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
Fair enough. But to have a legal army you'll need to also buy one more Troops choice. So, another Tactical Squad or a Scout Squad.
ok...i'll look into it more ^^
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 657
10-19-2010, 03:50 PM
Yeah, AoBR is still a pretty good deal, even at $90/$110, relative to buying all the units on your own. The Space Marines and Orks each play different, and will give you a good grasp of the basics, and you can spread out from there. If you have a good game store nearby, you might be able to borrow an army from someone to play an intro game with, and learn that way, then get the full-size rulebook (which has extra lore in it, too), plus the models for the army you actually want to play without having extras lying around.

In terms of picking up models, you might be able to find deals on eBay once in a while, which can help accelerate the process of getting fully ready. At a bare minimum, you need one HQ unit (for Space Marines, this would be a Captain, a Chaplain, or a Librarian), and two Troops (two Tactical Squads or two Scouts). Each codex will full explain an army, so you just need the core book and the codex for your army and you're all set in that department. Definitely experiment, and try to get a feel for what army works best for you, both in terms of playstyle and background. When I started, I loved the imagery for Space Marines, though the playstyle took a while for me to learn how to really master. Nowadays, I still rock the Space Marines (well, using the Space Wolves rules or my homegrown 'dex, anyway), but pretty much nothing about the army is the same (except for the basic color scheme) as when I started eight years ago.

That's one of the nice things about the hobby, you have quite a few options for getting started (and a lot more than when I started :p). The AoBR set is everything you need and then some, but that might not be the army you want, so the other main option is the core rulebook plus a battleforce as a starting point (which is slightly trickier, but will probably work out better in the long run). Or the core rulebook and building your army from scratch (i.e. just buying individual squads), which gives you the most flexibility, but requires the most knowledge/research (so you don't accidentally buy something that actually sucks for you, which I've done before :p).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 658
10-19-2010, 07:31 PM
Legal army refers to minimum and maximum force compositions.

At minimum, you need 1 HQ unit and 2 Troops units. At maximum you can 2 HQ units, 6 Troops units, 3 Heavy units, 3 Fast Attack units, and 3 Elites.

And Hazard is kinda right with my emphasis on infantry assaults. But it's not so much the 'just throw guys at the problem until the problem can't go anywhere because the bodies are clogging up the exhaust ports and fouling the treads. Rather it's use some infantry to draw fire while the heavy weapons get in position and unleash their fury upon the enemy. But the infantry will present itself as a credible threat with their own special weapons. And if a strongpoint resists assault, well then they have to answer to the Leman Russes.

Part of reason I like the Guard is because of the flexibility it offers even in basic troop choices. A Guardsman infantry platoon can have up to 5 squads of infantry, each squad capable of packing a 'special weapon' like a plasma gun, grenade launcher, or meltagun as well as a 'heavy weapon' like a heavy bolter, lascannon, or missile launcher. And the platoon can have up to 5 heavy weapons squads (units made up of all heavy weapons), 2 special weapons squads (with 3 special weapons choices), and a 'squad' of 'conscripts' which is a nice way of saying cannon fodder's cannon fodder. But the conscripts can be good for absorbing damage. After all, a mob of 50 guys with flashlights can still be pretty darn annoying.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 659
10-19-2010, 08:33 PM
And by "flashlight", she means the lasgun, the standard rifle of the Imperial Guardsman. While far superior as a firearm to anything wielded by any modern military, in the 40K universe it's extremely weak (one of the weakest weapons in the game, even), hence the joke name "flashlight".

However, the Imperial Guard army makes up for that by, as Raven explained, being able to swarm the field with dozens to even hundreds of those Guardsmen, as well as tanks galore, making them the most powerful shooting army in the game (though Emperor help them if they have to do any close-combat fighting, even their best stuff for that is little more than a speed bump to most other armies).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 660
10-19-2010, 09:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerka View Post
And by "flashlight", she means the lasgun, the standard rifle of the Imperial Guardsman. While far superior as a firearm to anything wielded by any modern military, in the 40K universe it's extremely weak (one of the weakest weapons in the game, even), hence the joke name "flashlight".

However, the Imperial Guard army makes up for that by, as Raven explained, being able to swarm the field with dozens to even hundreds of those Guardsmen, as well as tanks galore, making them the most powerful shooting army in the game (though Emperor help them if they have to do any close-combat fighting, even their best stuff for that is little more than a speed bump to most other armies).
One thing you can do (and I do) is premeasure the distances between some of your squads and your artillery units before the fight, then have the infantry advance, keeping track of how far they have moved from their start positions. Then when the enemy assault troops tear your squad apart and sends them fleeing for the hills you use trigonometry to get 100% 'guesses' to bring death from above down on the enemy assault troops. And assuming scatter rolls are not too bad the enemy assault teams will soon be thinned out pretty quickly. Especially if the assaulting squad is now in the sights of a few heavy weapons squads.

I have my biggest problems with Space Marines and Chaos Marines, mostly because the two groups are pretty good at melee and have those high armor saves.
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