Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 671
10-20-2010, 08:43 AM
Aesthetic appeal is definitely a major reason I play the armies I do (Space Marines, Chaos Marines, Eldar, and recently Tyranids), and should be a factor.

The rulebook gives a brief description of each faction, but doesn't go into the rules for them, other than some charts in the back that list their stats for their units. Though these aren't necessarily the most accurate (as some of the armies have been updated since that book came out), unless they auto-update them with subsequent printings, but I don't know if they actually do that. But, at the least, the full-size rulebook (or "the Big Red Book" as it gets called sometimes) will give you a good intro to their background.

VASSAL is a good way to get in practice games and such, especially if the nearest game store really is four hours away. It's a little tricky at first, because it's purely a top-down view, and the rules are built around a physical 3D table-top, but you can get used to it pretty quickly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 672
10-20-2010, 09:24 AM
so i know the orks are melee
and the imperial guard are really weak infantry that create a meat sheild for thier really powerful tanks

SMs and CSMs play kinda the same? (though i'm not really sure what i would classify them as? )

and the eldar are all "specialized" like each of their squads are all good at 1 thing and 1 thing only.

the tyranids are swarmers? right? esentially fill the playing feild with as many units as quickly as possibly and just swarm accross like fire ants, consuming anything in thier path?

what about the other units?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 673
10-20-2010, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
so i know the orks are melee
and the imperial guard are really weak infantry that create a meat sheild for thier really powerful tanks

SMs and CSMs play kinda the same? (though i'm not really sure what i would classify them as? )

and the eldar are all "specialized" like each of their squads are all good at 1 thing and 1 thing only.

the tyranids are swarmers? right? esentially fill the playing feild with as many units as quickly as possibly and just swarm accross like fire ants, consuming anything in thier path?

what about the other units?
Funny thing about the Tyranids is that the Imperial Guard can outswarm the swarm.

The Guard is more along the lines of lots weakish infantry with lots of heavy weapons and powerful tanks and support units.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 674
10-20-2010, 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
so i know the orks are melee
and the imperial guard are really weak infantry that create a meat sheild for thier really powerful tanks

SMs and CSMs play kinda the same? (though i'm not really sure what i would classify them as? )

and the eldar are all "specialized" like each of their squads are all good at 1 thing and 1 thing only.

the tyranids are swarmers? right? esentially fill the playing feild with as many units as quickly as possibly and just swarm accross like fire ants, consuming anything in thier path?

what about the other units?
Not necessarily. Orks are mostly built for melee, but I've seen shooty Ork lists can make up for the Orks' complete inability to aim with sufficiently greater volume of fire. Lootaz are an example. A single shot has about a 1/3 chance of hitting, but when you've got fifteen Orks firing three shots each, some of them are bound to hit. Statistically, around fifteen shots out of forty-five. Plus with awesome weapons like the Shokk Attack Gun, Killkannon, Kannon, Zzap gun, and more, Orks have the potential to be very nasty shooters.

Imperial Guard CAN be played as weak infantry creating a meatshield for powerful tanks, but they're versatile enough that they don't HAVE to be played that way. For contrast, Ravenstein's list has something like 400 infantrymen, give or take. My list, on the other hand, only has about forty (three ten-man Veteran squads in APCs and one ten-man Psyker Battle Squad) backed up by five tanks and three walkers.

The Eldar are spot on, that's exactly what they do. Each squad is specialized and performs one function. Synergy is all-important in an Eldar list.

Tyranids don't have to swarm. Some Tyranid lists do, for example my buddy's which has three thirty-model units of Hormagaunts, two ten-model units of Termagants, backed up by two or three Monstrous Creatures. My Nid list, on the other hand, is a whopping twenty-seven models, seven of which are Monstrous Creatures. The only reason I have two ten-model units of 'Gants is because there was no other (good) option for my two compulsory Troops choices.

Necrons are basically Space Marines that have zero options, but just won't die.

Chaos Space Marines are spiky Space Marines, nothing more to it. A few small distinctions for cult marines (Thousand Sons, Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines), but not enough to make them truly distinctive in my opinion. As I said before, Thousand Sons are the only thing about the CSM codex that even begins to interest me.

Tau are highly technologically advanced and very shooty. Their basic infantry have literally the best basic infantry weapon in the game, and dirt cheap to boot. All their tanks are skimmers, so they're highly mobile as well. Unfortunately, about half the units in their codex are utterly worthless in fifth edition, as they rely on rules that no longer exist (such as Shadowsun's ability to let units use her Leadership for Target Priority tests, when Target Priority no longer exists).

Dark Eldar are similar to Eldar in that most of their units are highly specialized, but they've got the extra caveat of being highly mobile and highly fragile. They're glass cannons (and this has not changed with their new codex). They're spectacular at alpha striking, and have the potential to wipe you off the board by turn 2, but in a protracted firefight they have the disadvantage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 675
10-20-2010, 10:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
Not necessarily. Orks are mostly built for melee, but I've seen shooty Ork lists can make up for the Orks' complete inability to aim with sufficiently greater volume of fire. Lootaz are an example. A single shot has about a 1/3 chance of hitting, but when you've got fifteen Orks firing three shots each, some of them are bound to hit. Statistically, around fifteen shots out of forty-five. Plus with awesome weapons like the Shokk Attack Gun, Killkannon, Kannon, Zzap gun, and more, Orks have the potential to be very nasty shooters.

Imperial Guard CAN be played as weak infantry creating a meatshield for powerful tanks, but they're versatile enough that they don't HAVE to be played that way. For contrast, Ravenstein's list has something like 400 infantrymen, give or take. My list, on the other hand, only has about forty (three ten-man Veteran squads in APCs and one ten-man Psyker Battle Squad) backed up by five tanks and three walkers.

The Eldar are spot on, that's exactly what they do. Each squad is specialized and performs one function. Synergy is all-important in an Eldar list.

Tyranids don't have to swarm. Some Tyranid lists do, for example my buddy's which has three thirty-model units of Hormagaunts, two ten-model units of Termagants, backed up by two or three Monstrous Creatures. My Nid list, on the other hand, is a whopping twenty-seven models, seven of which are Monstrous Creatures. The only reason I have two ten-model units of 'Gants is because there was no other (good) option for my two compulsory Troops choices.

Necrons are basically Space Marines that have zero options, but just won't die.

Chaos Space Marines are spiky Space Marines, nothing more to it. A few small distinctions for cult marines (Thousand Sons, Khorne Berzerkers, Plague Marines and Noise Marines), but not enough to make them truly distinctive in my opinion. As I said before, Thousand Sons are the only thing about the CSM codex that even begins to interest me.

Tau are highly technologically advanced and very shooty. Their basic infantry have literally the best basic infantry weapon in the game, and dirt cheap to boot. All their tanks are skimmers, so they're highly mobile as well. Unfortunately, about half the units in their codex are utterly worthless in fifth edition, as they rely on rules that no longer exist (such as Shadowsun's ability to let units use her Leadership for Target Priority tests, when Target Priority no longer exists).

Dark Eldar are similar to Eldar in that most of their units are highly specialized, but they've got the extra caveat of being highly mobile and highly fragile. They're glass cannons (and this has not changed with their new codex). They're spectacular at alpha striking, and have the potential to wipe you off the board by turn 2, but in a protracted firefight they have the disadvantage.
well the necrons sound nice, look nice too, and the tyranids, and of course the SM, which wouldy ou recommend? those would be my top 3 picks.. .the rest don't really interest me
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 676
10-20-2010, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
well the necrons sound nice, look nice too, and the tyranids, and of course the SM, which wouldy ou recommend? those would be my top 3 picks.. .the rest don't really interest me
Well, between Necrons, Tyranids, and Space Marines, that's a pretty broad range. I would hold off on Necrons until next year if you want to get them, as they should be getting a much-needed update them. Tyranids are very cool, but the painting can get repetitive if you wind up having a lot of relatively identical models.

Space Marines are the most popular army in the game, so they get a lot of love from Games Workshop. As was mentioned before, there's actually five different codexes for them, and the model ranges for all five armies are completely interchangeable. So, if you get, say, a vanilla Codex: Space Marines army, and decide you like Codex: Blood Angels more, you can just grab that book and you're pretty much set, since the armies are almost identical (you might need to change a few weapons, but that'd be about it). So you get a huge amount of versatility with the models, and the five armies all play pretty differently. But, as Hazard as pointed out, a lot of people play it, so if you ever go to a game store, you might wind up playing other Space Marines a lot, and those games can get pretty boring after a while. So, if you want something "different" then Tyranids are the way to go, unless you want to wait for the Necrons' update next year.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 677
10-20-2010, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
well the necrons sound nice, look nice too, and the tyranids, and of course the SM, which wouldy ou recommend? those would be my top 3 picks.. .the rest don't really interest me
You want my honest recommendation or my personal bias?

I'll give you both.

My honest recommendation would be Space Marines, but NOT Blood Angels - we've got enough people jumping on that bandwagon. Black Templars are my favorite, followed by Dark Angels, then the vanilla codex (Codex: Space Marines), then Space Wolves, then Blood Angels. This is because all of the Space Marine armies are easy to learn and relatively forgiving on the tabletop, making them great for newbies, and they're also fun to paint.

My personal bias is "anything but a Space Marine." Space Marines are the poster-boys of 40k, and I'm absolutely sick of seeing them on the tabletop. This goes for Chaos Space Marines as well as regular Space Marines. Necrons are basically just robot zombie Space Marines (on the tabletop, anyway), so my personal bias is towards Tyranids. They have a strong codex, are fun to paint, and despite their lack of fluff in the codex (how much fluff can you really give omnicidal hungry space bugs anyway?) they still have more "character" in my opinion than either Space Marines or Necrons.

Besides Necrons basically being zombie robot Space Marines, their codex is just weak. If you want a Necron army, wait 'til next year. My Necrons almost never see the tabletop as it is. Depending on the way you decide to paint them, Necrons can also be extremely boring to paint. I've circumvented this by going with an Egyptian theme for mine and mixing it up a bit, but plain old Necrons are a snooze-fest from a painting and modeling standpoint.

To be perfectly clear, the reason I DO have a Necron army is that I wanted to challenge myself. Knowing how weak their codex is, I wanted to see if I could win with one of the weakest codices in the game. I can, but it's not easy. So you can win with them, since they do have a few powerhouse units that you essentially have to max out on (my list is a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe, a token block of 20 Warriors for my required 2 Troops choices, and then as many Destroyers as I can fit into the army, plus one Monolith for every 750 points. The Lord, Destroyers, and Monolith are the only powerhouse units in the codex, although Immortals aren't bad).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 678
10-20-2010, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
You want my honest recommendation or my personal bias?

I'll give you both.

My honest recommendation would be Space Marines, but NOT Blood Angels - we've got enough people jumping on that bandwagon. Black Templars are my favorite, followed by Dark Angels, then the vanilla codex (Codex: Space Marines), then Space Wolves, then Blood Angels. This is because all of the Space Marine armies are easy to learn and relatively forgiving on the tabletop, making them great for newbies, and they're also fun to paint.

My personal bias is "anything but a Space Marine." Space Marines are the poster-boys of 40k, and I'm absolutely sick of seeing them on the tabletop. This goes for Chaos Space Marines as well as regular Space Marines. Necrons are basically just robot zombie Space Marines (on the tabletop, anyway), so my personal bias is towards Tyranids. They have a strong codex, are fun to paint, and despite their lack of fluff in the codex (how much fluff can you really give omnicidal hungry space bugs anyway?) they still have more "character" in my opinion than either Space Marines or Necrons.

Besides Necrons basically being zombie robot Space Marines, their codex is just weak. If you want a Necron army, wait 'til next year. My Necrons almost never see the tabletop as it is. Depending on the way you decide to paint them, Necrons can also be extremely boring to paint. I've circumvented this by going with an Egyptian theme for mine and mixing it up a bit, but plain old Necrons are a snooze-fest from a painting and modeling standpoint.

To be perfectly clear, the reason I DO have a Necron army is that I wanted to challenge myself. Knowing how weak their codex is, I wanted to see if I could win with one of the weakest codices in the game. I can, but it's not easy. So you can win with them, since they do have a few powerhouse units that you essentially have to max out on (my list is a Destroyer Lord with Warscythe, a token block of 20 Warriors for my required 2 Troops choices, and then as many Destroyers as I can fit into the army, plus one Monolith for every 750 points. The Lord, Destroyers, and Monolith are the only powerhouse units in the codex, although Immortals aren't bad).
i was reading up on the blood angels and wolves codexs the wolves are slightly more interesting then the blood angels, the BA are just ick D: whats the pro/cons of the other's? to me they all seem pretty much the same =/
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 679
10-20-2010, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintHazard View Post
But the panda might get some extra mileage out of it due to the whole "four hour drive to a game store" thing.
True, I've done the same thing before I moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
what about the other units?
The Witchhunters have been left out of the previous list - which isn't really that surprising; they are kind of easy to forget, simply because few people play them and GW doesn't advertise them as much as the other factions. But, since I'm a fanatical devotee of the God-Emperor, let me enlighten you with a quick rundown:

The WH are basically two armies in one - the Inquisition (Ordo Hereticus) and the Sisters of Battle. You can play a mixed army or focus on either one. The Ordo Hereticus is a force of inquisitorial troops built around an Inquisitor and his personal retinue, whereas the Sisters are female zealots with power armor. Kind of like the Marines, but still ordinary humans (just with lots of religious indoctrination) and thus not sporting the genetical enhancements. Their infantry is often described as some sort of "in-between" the Imperial Guard and the Marines, because they can dish out a lot of hurt in close-range firefights (boltguns) but tend to suck in melee (no superhuman strength). They also have the unique ability to activate some Faith-based powers to counter their weaknesses - you just need to be careful as to when to trigger them. They tend to lack on the heavy vehicles side, though, only having access to armed APCs and a missile launcher that looks like a tracked organ (yep, the Ecclesiarchy is that crazy ).

Also interesting is the ability to "pair up" these armies with other Imperial factions such as the Imperial Guard or the Marines - in fact, an Inquisition army tends to rely on support from one such force (often the Imperial Guard), as the only real troops the Inquisition has by its own are Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. The Sisters can't team up with Marines, though, as both factions do not really like each other, even though they are both considered Imperial.

That being said I would not really advise them for a newcomer, as things like the Faith mechanics take some experience to be timed correctly - on the other hand they have beautiful if expensive models and a certain uniqueness to them, simply because they are played by so few people. It's not uncommon to see dozens of Marine armies but only a single Sororitas strike force in a tournament.

Anyways, just wanted to make sure they're not left unmentioned.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 680
10-20-2010, 11:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by homsikpanda View Post
i was reading up on the blood angels and wolves codexs the wolves are slightly more interesting then the blood angels, the BA are just ick D: whats the pro/cons of the other's? to me they all seem pretty much the same =/
The Space Wolves are the ultimate close-combat army for Space Marines. They absolutely embody the "in your face" mentality of close-range fighting, plus they have a number of off-the-wall units none of the other Space Marine armies have, with some good shooting options, too. Blood Angels are the fastest of them, as they have massively souped up engines that make all their vehicles significantly faster than any of the other armies, so they can get around the table faster (which is important for certain kinds of missions you can play, among other things). They have some solid close-combat units too.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:31 AM.