Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 781
03-31-2011, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
In my mind its from an alternate universe, no matter what has been said. It makes far more sense that they traveled back in time to an alternate reality than the prime timeline since there are already a bunch of things that don't fit in. (Just my own opinion)
I know, but if they had used a design more closely to the prte-TOS era, it would have looked unrealistic and anachronistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
And I was referring to the alternate TOS uniforms.
Even those are easy to recreate, because most of them are similiar to the normal TOS uniforms. You only have to use the TOS medical tunic and nurse split skirt for the short sleeved female uniform, and the normal tunic and split skirt for the long sleeved version. And use the standard badges.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
I know about the overall uniforms, they are in this guide.

I think Blackavaar makes the best equivalents of the uniforms possible
I know, but in two cases he made poor choices. The first one is the use of the complete TWOk officers uniform to emulate the TWOK enlisted jumpsuit. The second is the TMP security uniform which should not be different than the other uniforms, because there is no way we coul drecreate the body armor security officers wore in TMP.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 782
03-31-2011, 08:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
I know, but if they had used a design more closely to the prte-TOS era, it would have looked unrealistic and anachronistic.
I still consider it part of the alternate reality, I don't even have a problem with a different style, but a lot of their choices were really poor. Blue for command for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
Even those are easy to recreate, because most of them are similiar to the normal TOS uniforms. You only have to use the TOS medical tunic and nurse split skirt for the short sleeved female uniform, and the normal tunic and split skirt for the long sleeved version. And use the standard badges.
I know, but are we allowed since it is Paramount property? If so, I'd like for him to make a guide for them, he's quite good at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
I know, but in two cases he made poor choices. The first one is the use of the complete TWOk officers uniform to emulate the TWOK enlisted jumpsuit. The second is the TMP security uniform which should not be different than the other uniforms, because there is no way we coul drecreate the body armor security officers wore in TMP.
I disagree, under the circumstances, I think he made the best possible choices to emulate those. I like them and I think he has done the best job at utilizing them. Nobody is forcing you to use them, ignore them if you don't like them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 783
03-31-2011, 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
I still consider it part of the alternate reality, I don't even have a problem with a different style, but a lot of their choices were really poor. Blue for command for example.
Those colors went through a lot of changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt.William2 View Post
I know, but are we allowed since it is Paramount property? If so, I'd like for him to make a guide for them, he's quite good at it.
It should not be a problem, because all other uniforms are also Paramount (now CBS) property.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 784
03-31-2011, 10:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
Wrong. We only seen one officer below Lieutenant Commander (except the Lieutenant in "The Savage Curtain", but that can clearly been interpreted as costume error, because he wore the same uniform as Scotty) and that was Lt. Areel Shaw. She wore the female version of the Lieutenant Dress Uniform.
Okay, upon reviewing Savage Curtain, Menagerie and Court Martial I have determined that you are still incorrect.

1. Lieutenant Shaw is wearing a Starbase 11 badge, not a mission patch. In TOS the Delta was actually specific to Enterprise crew. Other ships and starbases had their own badges. That is one of them. The same badge can be seen being worn on various starbase personnel, including Commodore Stone, in the same episode. Rank braids also only ever appear on the female Dress Uniform, likely because as a lawyer assigned to a starbase, Areel Shaw did not acquire any mission patches and therefor it was the only way to denote her rank.

2. Lieutenant Shaw's female Dress Uniform also has gold piping along the collar.

3. In addition to Areel Shaw, there is another unnamed Lieutenant seen in Court Martial. He is standing next to the Commodores on the bridge at the end of the episode. He is obviously a Security escort and cannot be a Lieutenant Commander as achieving that rank would make him head of Security and therefor he would not be relegated to escort duty.

Therefor Dickerson's Dress Uniform is not a mistake and the designation I have given Dress Uniform 3 as being both the Lieutenant and Lt. Commander uniform is correct.

In addition, in Court Martial there are several other Commodores seen with Stone. Only Stone wears the variant you say is the correct Commodore Dress Uniform. The other Commodores all appear in Dress Uniform 1. This is further confirmed by the appearance of Commodore Jose I. Mendez in Menagerie, who again wears Dress Uniform 1. This leads me to conclude that Commodore Stone, not every other Commodore, is wearing a variant because he is the presiding officer at the Court Martial. No other Commodore is seen wearing that uniform again during the series.

Therefor my designation of Dress Uniform 1 as being Captain and Commodore uniform is also correct.

Also, I have concluded that Dress Badge 5 is indeed a Cryptic original made with a combination of both Scotty's and Dickerson's mission patches. The devs likely assumed that including Scotty's would incite players to complain about the lack of a Scarf and Kilt to go with it and assumed that if they made Dickerson's many players would mistake it for Scotty's and make the same complaints.


Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 785
03-31-2011, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
Those colors went through a lot of changes.
I have seen Star Trek before.

My point was that, in my opinion, that was too big a change for no real reason. They could have just as easily made him gold, the others red, and then the medical blue.

Shades of the same basic color don't bother me, but I thought this was totally out of place.

The movie era makes some sense to me as a Starfleet experiment into dividing divisions more. It ended up too complex so they switched back and flipped Command and Operations.

ST XI's seemed too random and out of place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbarossaRotbart
It should not be a problem, because all other uniforms are also Paramount (now CBS) property.
No, they aren't. Cryptic can't make the 2009 uniforms because Paramount and CBS are seperate entitites.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 786
03-31-2011, 03:00 PM
I see, you're referring to the crew of the Kelvin. I didn't catch that initially. As far as I'm concerned, I discount anything I saw in that pile of steaming, big, beefy bear chunks. Like Star Trek V, it never happened (my take on things).

I mean, the Kelvin crew are even all wearing the Enterprise badge. Remember, the incident with the Kelvin happened before any timeline changes (the attack was the first change), so that ship should have been following established canon (which had different badges for different ships, and uniforms like Pike wore in The Cage).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 787
03-31-2011, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
[color="Wheat"]Okay, upon reviewing Savage Curtain, Menagerie and Court Martial I have determined that you are still incorrect.

1. Lieutenant Shaw is wearing a Starbase 11 badge, not a mission patch. In TOS the Delta was actually specific to Enterprise crew. Other ships and starbases had their own badges. That is one of them. The same badge can be seen being worn on various starbase personnel, including Commodore Stone, in the same episode. Rank braids also only ever appear on the female Dress Uniform, likely because as a lawyer assigned to a starbase, Areel Shaw did not acquire any mission patches and therefor it was the only way to denote her rank.
Lt. Shaw was the JAG officer for Starbase 11, so her assigment patch would be that of Starbase 11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
2. Lieutenant Shaw's female Dress Uniform also has gold piping along the collar.
And is made from the same fabric as thze other dress uniforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
3. In addition to Areel Shaw, there is another unnamed Lieutenant seen in Court Martial. He is standing next to the Commodores on the bridge at the end of the episode. He is obviously a Security escort and cannot be a Lieutenant Commander as achieving that rank would make him head of Security and therefor he would not be relegated to escort duty.

Therefor Dickerson's Dress Uniform is not a mistake and the designation I have given Dress Uniform 3 as being both the Lieutenant and Lt. Commander uniform is correct.
That changes only one thing: that a Lieutenant wears the same dress uniform as a Lieutenant Commander but he wears his assigment patch instead of his decorations. So Dickerson's uniform is still a costume error, or he was really a Leitenant Commander, then it would have been a script error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackavaar View Post
In addition, in Court Martial there are several other Commodores seen with Stone. Only Stone wears the variant you say is the correct Commodore Dress Uniform. The other Commodores all appear in Dress Uniform 1. This is further confirmed by the appearance of Commodore Jose I. Mendez in Menagerie, who again wears Dress Uniform 1. This leads me to conclude that Commodore Stone, not every other Commodore, is wearing a variant because he is the presiding officer at the Court Martial. No other Commodore is seen wearing that uniform again during the series.

Therefor my designation of Dress Uniform 1 as being Captain and Commodore uniform is also correct.
The other officers in the court martial were captains and not commodores. And it would be illogical that there were four commodore present on a simple Starbase. The reason for Commodore Mendez wearing a captain's dress uniform is a simple costume error which can be explained that they had created only a commodore's dress uniform in red, but a green one was needed, so they simply reused the one worn by one of the two captains of the command division.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 788
03-31-2011, 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I see, you're referring to the crew of the Kelvin. I didn't catch that initially. As far as I'm concerned, I discount anything I saw in that pile of steaming, big, beefy bear chunks. Like Star Trek V, it never happened (my take on things).

I mean, the Kelvin crew are even all wearing the Enterprise badge. Remember, the incident with the Kelvin happened before any timeline changes (the attack was the first change), so that ship should have been following established canon (which had different badges for different ships, and uniforms like Pike wore in The Cage).
Well, the attack on the USS Kelvin happened in 2233, Pike's mission on Thalos IV was in 2253 (Thridteen years before the first season of TOS), so it is wuite probable that the uniform was different. Between 2269 and 2279 the style of the uniform had been changed twice, the same happened between 2266 and 2273. Although in both cases you can argue that one of the changes was a simple retcon (which BTW was Roddenberry's opinion on the topic regarding the TMP uniforms and the look of the klingons and the Enterprise).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 789
03-31-2011, 04:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
I see, you're referring to the crew of the Kelvin. I didn't catch that initially. As far as I'm concerned, I discount anything I saw in that pile of steaming, big, beefy bear chunks. Like Star Trek V, it never happened (my take on things).

I mean, the Kelvin crew are even all wearing the Enterprise badge. Remember, the incident with the Kelvin happened before any timeline changes (the attack was the first change), so that ship should have been following established canon (which had different badges for different ships, and uniforms like Pike wore in The Cage).
I totally agree on the case of it making no sense that it is the prime timeline.

However, I kinda like the movie so my simple explanation is that is an alternate timeline before they show up, they just alter it even more.

It is never specifically stated it is the prime timeline when they show up.



But I'm getting a bit off topic.

I really like the mockups of the Cage style uniforms, I really wish they would make me in game
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 790 Vulcan uniforms
03-31-2011, 06:50 PM
We the release of the d'kyr and the possiblility of a purely vulcan ship crew any one have or had any ideas on possible uniforms for a Vulcan Science ship crew?
I'd be very grateful for any ideas peeps have.
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