Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Regarding STF's/ PvP + Cake
04-18-2010, 07:12 PM
STO is very much an okay game. It doesn't have a shining beacon of awesome gamedom to set it apart from the crowd. STO very much relies on its name to survive which lets face it without it STO would never have launched. Now there are lots of reasons that can cause a game to flourish or fail, too many to list here but in this thread we will focus on 2 big angry red issues that have caused many people to hit that cancel button.

1. STF's
Summary
Cryptic it was brilliant that you were able to release a few instances for endgame within such a short time, many people didn't expect 3 of them so soon. The problem I see with your STF's is the fact that no one has a real desire to play them. The mechanics behind them don't feel right and the rewards for the time spent are not in line with anything else in the game. This is supposed to be your end-game, which is what sustains long term customers more than anything else. I applaud you for having 3 so soon but I think most people would trade them all in for 1 that..
A. Works
B. Has desirable rewards
C. Is fun (which is very intangible factor I know)

Ground:
Another reason I see for somewhat mixed reviews on the STF's is the real lack of purpose. Sure you need an engineer and a doc and a tac...but what are you really doing when in the instance? You don't have specific roles other than try not to die but its still ok if you do. We don't have TOOLS that allow us to FILL a role.
Lets look at a classic tactic of Doctor Batleth tanking the miniboss in infected...group is safe cause they LOS the boss... Why does the engineer not have tanking skills? Why does the Tact not have any threat mitigation besides LOS?...Why is the Doctor meleeing the boss?
I know this sounds like I want a WoW in space but no that is not it...I use the examples only to illustrate how a game will employ the use of certain roles that need to be filled in a group.
This lack of specific roles is what leads to people having such difficulty with the instaces in addition to lack of gear, experience etc. All we do is run around shooting and ducking corners to regen health...the only tactic I have seen used that employs any type of crowd control ability is cover shield...WE NEED MORE SKILLS like this. Give us tools to do our jobs outside of + Shield regen, + Health regen, + DPS which currently all of our 'raid' skills seem to follow.

Space:
This can be summed up into 3 words which will seem oddly familar if you jsut read the above paragraph.
lack of roles.
Part 1 of Infected equates to zerg, spawn, repeat until everything is dead and your ship has exploded more times then cars in a die hard movie. SHIPS HAVE NO PURPOSE, WE ALL DO THE SAME THING
Our captain skills, which should be what set us apart as far as our purpose are just flavor. Sure I can hit APA and lay down some hurt but what specific role in a group is that...?

You," Dps Vox, that is what a Tac is supposed to do."

Vox," Agreed, but there is no utility to it and in fact it doubles with APO."

Why does a cruiser not have methods of holding aggroe...?
Why can't a science vessel sustain heals or crowd control...?

It is because of this that all space engagements in the STF's will reduce down to a number...which in the case of infected is 5...the average number of deaths before your group kills all the baddies...

STF's are supposed to showcase skill...right now skill is irrelevant without proper controls and utility within your group engagements. There is no such thing as a clean pull in this game, or CC or any form of aggressive healing...just pull 15+ borg and shoot them dead standing toe to toe with them...


With the way the STF's are currently designed It becomes more and more difficult to find people who want to actually play them which then leads me to...

2. PvP
The only reason I still have a current sub is the joy I get in watching my enemies ship explode before me. But even that is tiresome. Without any direction or goal players become lost and unfocused and ultimately bored. I remember when I first hit RA I played PvP with a fever to equip my ship in nice shiny purples...that was along time ago...with nothing left to achieve now other than the satisfaction of my personal victories against opponents.

Space:
Too few maps + Too few viable abilities + Too few weapon choices + Too few enemies = Poor PvP
I don't really need to elaborate here as the above line kinda says it all. The PvP is all on one map (Cap&hold) everyone has the same abilities (Sci Team, Reverse Shield Pol, Cannon Rapid Fire, Torp High Yield) and everyone is using the same weapons (AP anything). There is 0 Diversity in the matches but what makes it worse is the fact that victory is meaningless.

What does it matter at lvl cap if I get some extra skill points (I can't use them), or even BO points (I have tens of thousands), or energy creds (I have millions), or marks of excellence (I have hundreds)...
The answer is it DOESN'T matter. So I fly around killing because that is the only part of the PvP experience that holds any entertainment. We need a REASON to win cause currently I have no desire to try.

Ground:
Stun + Hold + Expose + Exploit = Even worse PvP.
Sure consumables...ok...why do I have to spamm consumables...or carry stacks with me to be viable in ground? Oh...because it is designed around holds and roots that have no skill counter...
I really have nothing more to say on ground PvP other than the fact that the Q takes forever because of this reason...fighting a battle is fun...being stunned for the entire battle is not...and even after the consumable hot fix they don't last long enough and are a waste when proper skill balancing should be the real fix.

3. Cake
There is never any cake...you should know that by now.


TL;DR ENDGAME ENDGAME ENDGAME is what keeps subs coming in. Without changes to the current ENDGAME lineup it might be ENDGAME for STO...

JK on the doom & gloom but seriously STO needs a real endgame not patched in goofball zergfest with some sprinkling of tired repetitive PvP.

P.S. I love your face Cryptic.

Respectfully,
-Vox
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-18-2010, 07:22 PM
I disagree with the zerg on infected space part, if everyone goes behind the gate and pulls only what they are capable of handling and focus-firing, nobody should ever die, I know i've done it a few times with a good group and nobody died.

the part about the cure on the ground, I agree with.. you shouldn't need a doctor with a bat'leth to pretty much solo the boss. all I did was stand back and try to shoot the guy through his never-ending cover shield spam. it was a pretty cool ability, and I guess.. I enjoyed.. watching the fight.. but I really wanted to you know, be a part of it, and shoot the boss. so tone down his shield spam so I can get a few shots in now and again.

with regard to victory in PVP being meaningless, perhaps they should make the PVP dailies REQUIRE you to win, in order to get credit for it... then people will actually TRY, rather than just AFKing waiting for the match to end so they can get credit and be on their way. that only solves the problem for people doing the daily, which is 3 times a day, but it will help anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-18-2010, 07:38 PM
Pretty good post mostly true,I just want better loot though :]
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-18-2010, 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepidox View Post
I disagree with the zerg on infected space part, if everyone goes behind the gate and pulls only what they are capable of handling and focus-firing, nobody should ever die, I know i've done it a few times with a good group and nobody died.
The concept of FF alludes most PUG groups let alone LOS tanking...I do agree with your assessment...yes it is possible but it feels like we have to Force that mechanic in almost like an exploit instead of working as intended. I don't know I guess I just think "Was this really the design concept they were going for?"
Dieing 5 times, or using LOS around a portal just don't seem like they are part of the working design.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepidox View Post
the part about the cure on the ground, I agree with.. you shouldn't need a doctor with a bat'leth to pretty much solo the boss. all I did was stand back and try to shoot the guy through his never-ending cover shield spam. it was a pretty cool ability, and I guess.. I enjoyed.. watching the fight.. but I really wanted to you know, be a part of it, and shoot the boss. so tone down his shield spam so I can get a few shots in now and again.
We lack utility in our roles. Everyone = DPS with mixed levels of survivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepidox View Post
with regard to victory in PVP being meaningless, perhaps they should make the PVP dailies REQUIRE you to win, in order to get credit for it... then people will actually TRY, rather than just AFKing waiting for the match to end so they can get credit and be on their way. that only solves the problem for people doing the daily, which is 3 times a day, but it will help anyway.
All this would do is make the Q an even bigger ghost town. An average Cap&hold is like 25-40 minutes...with the changes to cap timers it is just too long. I can finish an exploration mission in 5 minutes. So do I spend 15 minutes doing my daily or 3+ hours?
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