Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-22-2010, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
As you go up in ranks, you acquire additional resources, and thus can also acquire new and higher grade equipment. More over, the Merit and Badge system tells us that the avaialble resources - at least among Starfleet - are distributed based on your success. If you are a good Starfleet Captain that solves problems for the Federation and gain resources and allies for it, you gain a "bigger share" of the available resources, as you have proved yourself to be able to use them wisely and effectively.
Which is a really nifty concept: You are rewarded for your hard work.

Another way to consider it, and I did this morning when i was typing up Captain's Logs for the day, at attaining Rear Admiral I selected a bridge that only had two seats--I ended up lamenting that the Federation is rolling these things out so fast that they're running out of chairs. Let's face it, chances are that our ships aren't brand new, but recommissioned, refitted, and refurbished. The Federation is spread out at all fronts trying to keep itself from collapsing in--and they're pushing EVERYONE through the ranks. Brand new ships with brand new equipment? Not possible--earn it, as the quoted text states.

For game considerations, it gives you a reason to push forward.

And rank isn't everything--rare equipment is nice, sometimes better than higher-tier versions (I was rolling around with a Covariant Mk V shield generator with [Cap]x2, better than ANY shield generator under Mk IX; I finally replaced it with a Mk IX [Cap]x2 of the same flavor.)

[Edit] I neglected something--unlike most MMOs, this game is very soft on currency. There are few, if any, credit sinks; the greatest use of them is trade with commodity vendors if you choose to go that route and the AH. People having too much money with nothing to spend it on creates inflation, and the value of the credit goes down proportionally (sadly, I haven't found the commodity to track yet for general inflation of in-game currency--WoW had copper, as it was common and constantly in-demand).

Should common gear be available at vendors? Certainly--I think DS9 vendors sell a lot of white Captain's gear, but I could be wrong. Even at DS9, you can get your Tier 4 vessel, but not your promotion (which I thought was a bit weird.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-25-2010, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
They are not available at the time of manufacture. Even in a (supposedly) post-money world of the Federation, there are still limited resources. Higher grade equipment costs resources. So they pick a selection of equipment that is affordable.

As you go up in ranks, you acquire additional resources, and thus can also acquire new and higher grade equipment. More over, the Merit and Badge system tells us that the avaialble resources - at least among Starfleet - are distributed based on your success. If you are a good Starfleet Captain that solves problems for the Federation and gain resources and allies for it, you gain a "bigger share" of the available resources, as you have proved yourself to be able to use them wisely and effectively.
That isn't the way things work in the real world. Particularly ground weapons. Let me put it this way, if a tier 1 Fed away team with Mk II equipment met up with tier 4 Klingons equiped with Mk VIII it would be a turkey shoot for the Klingons, even in PvE.

In space PvE players fight higher tier ships, but those ships have been nerfed to a shaddow of their real capabilities. If the PvE ships were properly equiped few players would be winning those battles.

In STO we don't have to worry about running into higher tier weapons because the system artificially prevents it from happening.

If we ever have "open PvP" lower level players will find out just how inadequately they are armed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13 meh
04-25-2010, 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STObee
That isn't the way things work in the real world. Particularly ground weapons. Let me put it this way, if a tier 1 Fed away team with Mk II equipment met up with tier 4 Klingons equiped with Mk VIII it would be a turkey shoot for the Klingons, even in PvE.

In space PvE players fight higher tier ships, but those ships have been nerfed to a shaddow of their real capabilities. If the PvE ships were properly equiped few players would be winning those battles.

In STO we don't have to worry about running into higher tier weapons because the system artificially prevents it from happening.

If we ever have "open PvP" lower level players will find out just how inadequately they are armed.
Come now STObee, you know and I know, that the damage upgrades of weapons, isn't high enough, for the numbers difference if it came to open PvP. It's well over 40-1 now. Fedbears would smoke KDF, just due to that. As well, the hate that seems to come from dev -> kdf, that it'd be allowed to happen, and called fair.

In canon, any ship that was X amount of years behind, or amount of tech levels behind, was no threat to a ship, that was above it. In ground combat, from canon, any weapon was a bodily threat, regardless of age.
There were no personal shields, personal armor, for someone to use, that allows them to take repeat blasts, and live.

The only way I could see the space example you did above, would be if they limited the amount of players per map. However, with the handful of KDF we have left, that'd still probably be a vastly uneven fight. (sad really)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-26-2010, 02:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STObee
That isn't the way things work in the real world. Particularly ground weapons. Let me put it this way, if a tier 1 Fed away team with Mk II equipment met up with tier 4 Klingons equiped with Mk VIII it would be a turkey shoot for the Klingons, even in PvE.

In space PvE players fight higher tier ships, but those ships have been nerfed to a shaddow of their real capabilities. If the PvE ships were properly equiped few players would be winning those battles.

In STO we don't have to worry about running into higher tier weapons because the system artificially prevents it from happening.

If we ever have "open PvP" lower level players will find out just how inadequately they are armed.
as far as what i have highlighted, WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING AND WHY HAVNT YOU SHARED YET???!!!

i was in the military, USMC in fact, my brother did 2 tours in Iraq with the army. the marine corps (red headed step children we are) was still running computers with windows NT 4.0 and WIN 98 in 2001. lots of the equipment i used was almost 10 years old or more. my brother drove an armored personel carrier that would qualify for an antique car license plate in most states. the F-15 fighter is based off of late 1960's to early 1970's technology and is now just in the process of getting swapped out. how long has it been since the F-117 stealth fighter was announced to the public and we still use them. hell we are still using the SR-71 blackbird.

if it gets a job done, the military still uses it. period. and starfleet is the federation military. if you want better gear, you better have a valid need that can be demonstrated and you better play politics. best political currency is success in the field. even in voyager and DS9 and in the dominion war the feds still used mirandas ( yes refitted) and excelsiors (again refitted) but they were far from the best.

even in today's military, there are many attachments that are available and variations to the old standard M-16 rifle (new in early vietnam war) that make it far more effective, but everyone doesn't get them. in 2001, as part of my field gear, i was still issued a shelter half (canvas flap that could be made into a tent, but only half of one, had to find a buddy to set it up) that was a new design back in the korean war.

yeah, in the real world. we get the latest and greatest..... always

rant over
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-28-2010, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribblerancher View Post
as far as what i have highlighted, WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING AND WHY HAVNT YOU SHARED YET???!!!

i was in the military, USMC in fact, my brother did 2 tours in Iraq with the army.
. . .
even in today's military, there are many attachments that are available and variations to the old standard M-16 rifle (new in early vietnam war) that make it far more effective, but everyone doesn't get them. in 2001, as part of my field gear, i was still issued a shelter half (canvas flap that could be made into a tent, but only half of one, had to find a buddy to set it up) that was a new design back in the korean war.

. . .

rant over
In STO a tier 1 Fed escort fresh from the shipbuilder can only equip Mk I & II items, while a 200 year old tier 4 BOP can equip anything up to Mk VIII.

In STO you can't use the best equipment until you are an Admiral/General, you can buy it in the exchange as a tier 1 player, but can't equip it (figure out how to use it).

I worked in Force Integration - fielding of new equipment, MTOE development, etc. You would not find a unit where every soldier has a different weapon - M-16's firing 5.56mm and AK-47's firing 7.62x39mm and FN-FALs firing 7.62x51mm and Mosen-Nagant's firing 7.62x54R. It would be a logistical and procurement nightmare. In STO you have a fire team sized away team equiped with everything under the sun instead of Star Fleet or KDF standard weapons. In STO the player buys the weapons, in the real world the military wouldn't let you provide your own weapon or use civilian ammunition, nor would they charge you for your kit (OCIE), though people do supplement to an extent. It's highly unlikely that today's military is going to let you buy and use much in the way of attachments for THEIR rifle. Most of the good attchments cost way more than the rifle anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-28-2010, 07:50 PM
yes you have standardized equipment in the military. however when you are in the field or in theatre, if what you got aint working any more you grab what you can.

the effectiveness of the m-16 is greatly enhanced with the addition of a simple 3x power optical sight. how many troops get those?

my shelter half... why in the hell was i still issued that in 2001? it was new 4 decades prior to that. my brothers APC being as old as it was? the m-16 is 4 decades plus old as well. there are other firearms that do the job better... the answer is they are still around and still work.

the variety of of weapons in the fire team setting is a mmo customability thing. as far as if you get best gear as soon as you get a new tier.... maybe standard issue is what comes on the ship. every ship (starship or navy) gets little tweaks through out its life. it could be in the form of retrofits or modifications that the engineer/captain do to the ship to suit their style. (nothing too extravagant o exotic)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-30-2010, 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STObee
Why do Star Fleet and the KDF send out their ships with inferior weapons, engines, etc?

<...>

STO has a lot of these unrealities, which add up to one big unreality.
And why does the British Army send its fine soldiers overseas to fight with inferior weapons in Afghanistan? Sadly sending people off to risk their lives for the state with lousy equipment is one of the more realistic aspects in STO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-04-2010, 04:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilhippo View Post
And why does the British Army send its fine soldiers overseas to fight with inferior weapons in Afghanistan? Sadly sending people off to risk their lives for the state with lousy equipment is one of the more realistic aspects in STO.
Compared to what the other side has the British Army is very well equipped, wouldn't you say?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STObee
Compared to what the other side has the British Army is very well equipped, wouldn't you say?
No I would not say. Driving around in unarmoured vehicles when the main method of enemy attack is roadisde bombs is not "well equipped". The equipment needed exists. But it is expensive and so squadies die in unarmoured landrovers or inappropriately armoured AFV's designed to fight the Soviets in Germany.

Why? Money.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-05-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribblerancher View Post
DS9 and in the dominion war the feds still used mirandas ( yes refitted) and excelsiors (again refitted) but they were far from the best.
I'd like to note that in almost every Dominion War battle scene with a Miranda or Excelsior in it, the old ship is being rapidly turned into tritanium vapor. So yeah.
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