Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Cruiser Becomes a Joke ?
04-20-2010, 01:29 PM
After maxing out my Tactical BOP I have decided to roll a Fed Science officer cruiser. Currently C6.

First off , the upcoming changes to ability stacking. (Namely RSP)
I am really enjoying being able to actually tank damage. I run 2x RSP 2x ENG team 1x Hazard 1x Science team.
I shield tank with my RSP, hull tank with eng+hazard emitters and de-buff with the science. With the upcoming nerf to stacking , what is proposed to maintain the tank as a viable option in pvp. When my RSP is down , I am dead if I get focused unless my team is 100% dedicated to my support. Now I can understand the need to limit the stacking , 4-5 RSP's are probably not what the devs had in mind. My question is , what do they propose my options will be when this nerf comes in ? 1 rsp that gets instantly stripped by Sub Nuc, and I am almost as squishy as an escort. The only option I see coming to remain viable in pvp is to switch to an all out science ship.(Siphon+TSS+SubNuc+Jam+VM /SIGH) I am very much enjoying pvp tanking and am NOT looking forward to this eventuality. If tanks can now only have 1 RSP per engagement , how can you possibly change Sub Nuc to be able to strip it ?? Iím completely dumbfounded how they think anyone in their right mind will continue to play the cruiser. PLEASE enlighten me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-20-2010, 01:48 PM
newsflash, you don't tank in pvp. good teams will immediately pull off of you and can the other people.

whoever told you tanking in pvp is viable needs to do their research
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-20-2010, 02:26 PM
Um ... that's kind of my point. PUGS will choose targets poorly and pay a quick 5-0 penalty for their error in choosing me. Good teams will understand I tank to well to be a viable target , in essence MAKING me viable. The 2-3 tanks force their hand in choosing who WE want them too (mainly our escort) in which we are prepared with extend / teams ect... Maybe we disagree that tanking is not viable NOW, but that doesn't change my statement that they will NOT be viable at ALL in the up coming changes. If I wasn't able to tank at least as well as I do now, why WOULDN'T every team be made up of science + escorts only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-20-2010, 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
newsflash, you don't tank in pvp. good teams will immediately pull off of you and can the other people.

whoever told you tanking in pvp is viable needs to do their research
This.

First thing we do against an RSP chainer is ignore them, if they're chaining RSP they're not extending and vice versa, cruisers are secondary targets imo anyway unless they're actually healing effectively in which case they Get locked down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbirdd View Post
science + escorts only.
I resemble that remark!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-20-2010, 02:45 PM
I don't even have 2 RSPs in my build, only one. I only ever pop it if I really need it.

I do not pretend to be the best PvPer in 1vs1. I am build around fighting in a team. My "tanking" skills revolve around making myself a less attractive target than an escorts or science vessels, so that I may focus my attention on healing my teammates.

Right now, Escort burst damage is a little excessive in my opinion. Or at least it feels that way when they pop my shield and hit me for 25k hull in one salvo. That means that a very good escort can probably kill me very quickly.

The problem is not the upcoming RSP changes, its the fact that some escorts can burst damage for 50K+ hull damage plus whatever shields you are using in a few seconds. I'm not QQing about escorts being OP, but it would be nice to see Cruisers get some kind of innate hull resist over other classes. Right now, the extra few thousand hull a cruiser has is a joke compared to the burst DPS output of a good escort player.

But, as a PvPer, and as a cruiser, my job is to survive that alpha strike from the escort and counter it effectively, or help others survive it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-20-2010, 02:55 PM
We could have them add a TAUNT feature in RSP that acts like the Taunt in CoX where the player is forced to target your ship for a few seconds.

THAT WOULD BE SWEETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

(/sarcasm off)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-20-2010, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Right now, Escort burst damage is a little excessive in my opinion. Or at least it feels that way when they pop my shield and hit me for 25k hull in one salvo. That means that a very good escort can probably kill me very quickly. .
speaking as an escort pilot I have to agree there.

I've been doing some fairly extensive experimenting lately with weapon builds and the amount of frontal DPS I can kick out atm is a little scary. I'm certainly not the worlds best pvp'er but being able to whack in a 24 second SNB then follow it up with a Rapid fire where I can shred shields and a 27k+ hull in seconds seems a little overboard.
Lt. Commander
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# 8
04-20-2010, 03:46 PM
I have to agree with Ipigi, a cruisers best abilities lie in their healing. RSP + hull + decent shields = Not the average 1st target to take down.
However; Ipigi can attest to this as he has faced off against his own fleetmates before in 5v5 premade pvp and been on the recieving end of good pvp, a cruiser that thinks stacking RSP is going to save them is going to wonder why RSP didn't work with no shield power.
Engineering team and haz em are better for tanking then any shield healing skills will ever be. There is no beam target subsystems HULL. The insane amount of hull resist we have gotten before in a game is amazing.
If a cruiser thinks there is such a thing as tanking in PVP they are ill in the head. Normally the cruisers are the last targets we kill.....if we even kill them at all. It is easier to lock them down take out thier engines and weapons and watch them float around then try to kill them.
As for escorts being able to kill players fast.....it is theri role. As is going POP real fast.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-20-2010, 04:04 PM
I see were you are all going with this. I understand. I use 2x eng teams 1x hazard and 1x science as support most games. You seem to be missing the point that I made. We are able to be healers/support BECAUSE we can tank. We are not targeted BECAUSE we can tank. The point I was trying to make is the new changes will take away that ability. We will now be just as viable targets as escorts. Since we cant tank anymore ... we cant support/heal as well as the science ships ... we cant DPS as well as the Escorts .... there will be zero use for cruisers whatsoever.

EDIT : What I actually get out of the responses so far, is that Cruisers are not viable NOW, so what difference does it make. Now should this be OK ?? We just except the fact ?? why not try to improve there viability instead of take it away even more?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-20-2010, 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warbirdd View Post
I We are able to be healers/support BECAUSE we can tank. We are not targeted BECAUSE we can tank. The point I was trying to make is the new changes will take away that ability. We will now be just as viable targets as escorts. Since we cant tank anymore ... we cant support/heal as well as the science ships ... we cant DPS as well as the Escorts .... there will be zero use for cruisers whatsoever.
let me clarify
You are able to heal and support because engineer captains are the only ones that can get skills like enginner team 3, not because you can tank. In fact most of the time when you are healing it is not yourself...and if it is then the team you are facing is retarded.

the reason why you are not targeted first is not becasue you can tank it is because the escorts hurt so much and die so fast and that the science ships when done right are the ugliest thing in the fight since Oprah got a coupon for a free buffet at the Old Country Buffet. Not because you "can tank".

I can tell you from personal experience a science ship CAN NOT heal as good as a cruiser, I have tried and it is not even close in numbers. Science is good at healing shields not hull......the burst healing a cruiser throws out to hull is unmatched.

As far as DPS goes I know that there are times when our cruisers do well over 200-300K DPS in a match.
I suggest you rethink the overall role of a cruiser in PVP bud. You currently are way off base.
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