Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
04-22-2010, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp_Hazzard
While that's a good point at this time, they have also said that Open PvP of some kind will probably happen. And there won't be level parity limits there.
Well again, your point is pretty much invalid. Open PvP, you are level 45, you target a TOS Connie, and notice it is an even con. Just assume he's in a tier 5 ship with a skin. People made this same argument in SWG when they were adding the appearance item system. They argued that they would see somebody in normal clothes and not know what type of armor they were wearing, or see them in battle armor, but they were wearing assult or recon. SOE added in an option to turn off appearance items when you examine somebody, but who has time to do that in a mass PvP battle?

Canon examples of higher ranking people commanding a (STO) lower level ship -

* Kirk - every Connie version of the Enterprise up to Admiral rank (tier 1 or tier 2 ship ingame)
* Riker - As Admiral he commanded the Enterprise-D (All Good Things...) (tier 4 ship)
* Harry Kim - commanded a Nova, the Rhode Island (End Game) as a Captain (Tier 2 ship)
* Admiral Eric Pressman - had his flag on the USS Crazy Horse (Excelsior-class) (not in game, should be a tier 2 variation IMO)
* Beverly Crusher - Captain, USS Pasteur (Olympic-class) (Tier 3 ship)
* Vulcan Captain of USS Saratoga (named as Saros or Storil in two differing texts) (Reliant-class) (Starter Ship)

I can quite literally go on and on here. The fact remains that many people want to at least have the appearance of a specific ship which is currently only available at lower tiers than are feasible to use at current endgame, or for progression for that matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
04-22-2010, 03:21 PM
A similar counter argument was made about custom beam colors, that you could tell from the actual graphic and the effects, and, of course, your combat log. It didn't stop them.

Logic doesn't stop the kind of people who would raise a ruckus about not being able to tell from the hull what tier the ship was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
04-22-2010, 09:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWitt_LSF
I was reading another thread on how to refit existing ships as you rank up. It was overly complicated, where the solution should be simple. I came up with another idea that may be simpler than even my idea on just making the existing lower tier ships available as customization options as you rank up.

Remove the shield modifier from the ship that reduces the effectiveness of a shield (not to be confused with the modifier for Science or Escort ships).
Yay. I like it.

BTW - I brought this idea to the forums a while back and was almost clubbed to death. (and I'm sure a lot more people had this idea before me too) And yes, the other ideas are overcomplicated, but recieved far less fire this time around.
....we've come a long way.

I hope we see this come true at some point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
04-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWitt_LSF
Well again, your point is pretty much invalid. Open PvP, you are level 45, you target a TOS Connie, and notice it is an even con. Just assume he's in a tier 5 ship with a skin. People made this same argument in SWG when they were adding the appearance item system. They argued that they would see somebody in normal clothes and not know what type of armor they were wearing, or see them in battle armor, but they were wearing assult or recon. SOE added in an option to turn off appearance items when you examine somebody, but who has time to do that in a mass PvP battle?

Canon examples of higher ranking people commanding a (STO) lower level ship -

* Kirk - every Connie version of the Enterprise up to Admiral rank (tier 1 or tier 2 ship ingame)
* Riker - As Admiral he commanded the Enterprise-D (All Good Things...) (tier 4 ship)
* Harry Kim - commanded a Nova, the Rhode Island (End Game) as a Captain (Tier 2 ship)
* Admiral Eric Pressman - had his flag on the USS Crazy Horse (Excelsior-class) (not in game, should be a tier 2 variation IMO)
* Beverly Crusher - Captain, USS Pasteur (Olympic-class) (Tier 3 ship)
* Vulcan Captain of USS Saratoga (named as Saros or Storil in two differing texts) (Reliant-class) (Starter Ship)

I can quite literally go on and on here. The fact remains that many people want to at least have the appearance of a specific ship which is currently only available at lower tiers than are feasible to use at current endgame, or for progression for that matter.
The ranks of the captains of those ships is irrelevant. The ships themselves were not top of the line. Also, this is a video game based on a television/move franchise, not a television show itself.

This topic has become the favorite of STO kiddies who are completely clueless about how MMOs work.
The Galaxy class was surpassed by the Sovereign class, just as the Constitution was surpassed by the Excelsior and the Excelsior by the Galaxy. Get over it and move up to the appropriate class ship for your tier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
04-23-2010, 01:25 PM
And you hit the nail on the head.

The ONLY reason Cryptic's performance has been tolerated is love for the shows and movies.

Remove that by "getting over it and moving up" might just remove that safety blanket and make them accountable for what can only be characterized as poor performance and QA.

I like that people are willing to work with cryptic and help them along while suggesting more flash to keep them happy.

People being encouraged to "move up" is not what Cryptic needs right now as they may decide to move up to a better maintained game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
04-23-2010, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp_Hazzard
A similar counter argument was made about custom beam colors, that you could tell from the actual graphic and the effects, and, of course, your combat log. It didn't stop them.

Logic doesn't stop the kind of people who would raise a ruckus about not being able to tell from the hull what tier the ship was.
A simple fix, maybe anyway, why not list what tier the ship is next to the player's name. example: T2, T3 ect.?

Wouldn't that work? Or at least have the player's rank appear next to their name. That way even if they were in a lower tier ship, one could assume that the ship has advanced abilities?


Just a thought
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
04-23-2010, 05:24 PM
The *EASIEST* way to address this is here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=151843
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
04-23-2010, 06:11 PM
No the easiest is just to let them sell skins in the C-Store.

Adding anything else other than an example of something they already supply is not as easy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
04-23-2010, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasquatic
The ranks of the captains of those ships is irrelevant. The ships themselves were not top of the line. Also, this is a video game based on a television/move franchise, not a television show itself.

This topic has become the favorite of STO kiddies who are completely clueless about how MMOs work.
The Galaxy class was surpassed by the Sovereign class, just as the Constitution was surpassed by the Excelsior and the Excelsior by the Galaxy. Get over it and move up to the appropriate class ship for your tier.
Those are non-issues for this. It is simply an issue of customization. Our "avatar" in this game is our captain, crew, and ship. I want to customize my "avatar" to be what I like. If that means I use a weaker tiered ship because it is my favorite, why should I be FORCED to be weaker than the number crunching min/maxers who only care about "BIG NUMBERS"?

Cryptic, please allow us the ability to bring our favorite ships up to par with the top end ships. This adds another level of customization to this game. Isn't having huge amounts of customization part of what makes you Cryptic?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
04-24-2010, 03:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasquatic
The ranks of the captains of those ships is irrelevant. The ships themselves were not top of the line. Also, this is a video game based on a television/move franchise, not a television show itself.

This topic has become the favorite of STO kiddies who are completely clueless about how MMOs work.
The Galaxy class was surpassed by the Sovereign class, just as the Constitution was surpassed by the Excelsior and the Excelsior by the Galaxy. Get over it and move up to the appropriate class ship for your tier.
Well YOUR argument is flawed. Starfleet has a history of refitting older ships to keep them as close to current tech and specs of newer ships. The original Enterprise had many many refits before the rebuild into the TMP era Connie. The Galaxy Enterprise was also refit multiple times during the run of TNG, and while it wasn't implicitly stated, the Sovereign Enterprise was probably refit to some degree each time it went in for repairs after each movie in which it was featured.

Taking just the TMP Connie, while an older spaceframe, it was easily on par with and in many cases superior to the Excelsior-class ships that were deployed befoe the Connie class was retired.

Now as far as how MMOs work, it's time to break the mold, not only think outside the box, but reshape it into another form. With the level of customization the STO engine can allow, not to mention Cryptic's own design philosophy on the matter, there is no reason not to allow players to choose the skin they prefer for their ships, which is in essence a cisualization of their ingame character. I've been playing MMOs since 2001, and frankly I am sick and tired of how MMOs work - ugly craptastic gear at low levels, grind and camp and farm for several levels to get both decent stats and look, rinse repeat because your gear is now not good enough for the content you are now facing. Other games have already started letting players dress how they wish (appearance tab) and while the arguments against it are vocal and full of how it will negatively impact their game, they are always proven wrong.

For the record my Fedrat is flying a DSSV with the Nimbus skin. I've moved up to the appropriate tier ship each time I ranked, but like many many others, I would rather my ship look like something else. It won't affect gameplay at all, despite what anybody thinks.
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