Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I found an interesting article. Perhaps it may spark some debate.

Excerpt:

Quote:
I think it's time Star Trek fandom at least gave him some credit for getting us to this point. Sure, in hindsight, there are a lot of things we can do differently. But at least we did have Berman to create the road for Star Trek to travel. And for that, he deserves our gratitude and our respect.
Is Rick Berman a monster? Does he deserve credit, blame, or a combination of the two?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Never believe what you see in the press even in an interview without a lot of substantial cross documentation.

Man, i have to stop working in the news industry.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-24-2010, 11:35 AM
ive never really understood the hate for berman.
i dont think he was the best writer and things got away from him at the end with nemesis and enterprise but he did give us what i like to think as the golden era of star trek
the later years of tng, all of ds9 and the early part of voyager, along with first contact. its not like his entire reign was a disaster.

nemesis and enterprise were not even as bad as many people say


as for that article im not sure why that guys think the first three season of ds9 need to be forgotten. ive been re-watching them recently and they have some amazing episodes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-24-2010, 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo

as for that article im not sure why that guys think the first three season of ds9 need to be forgotten. ive been re-watching them recently and they have some amazing episodes
I agree. I can barely watch the first two seasons of TNG, when GR was still around, while the first few seasons of ds9 are still quite watchable. Both series got good around season 3.

Voy, on the other hand, was kind of all over the place with inconsistent writing. Although I think Voy had some of my fav episodes of Trek, it wasn't a great series.

I'll give Berman some credit for the good years, but, honestly, I think more credit should go to the writers like Moore, Piller, etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-24-2010, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
ive never really understood the hate for berman.
i dont think he was the best writer and things got away from him at the end with nemesis and enterprise but he did give us what i like to think as the golden era of star trek
the later years of tng, all of ds9 and the early part of voyager, along with first contact. its not like his entire reign was a disaster.

nemesis and enterprise were not even as bad as many people say


as for that article im not sure why that guys think the first three season of ds9 need to be forgotten. ive been re-watching them recently and they have some amazing episodes
hear hear!

I just finished watching DS9 for the first time and some of the most astounding, heart-wrenching and well-acted episodes are in the 1st 3 seasons.

Personally, I think Berman did a lot of good for Trek - he kept it alive. Okay - so maybe he also laid the foundation for it being overplayed - but some of the best Trek came out under his eye...and I will also be happy that it did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-24-2010, 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerilynnS View Post
hear hear!

I just finished watching DS9 for the first time and some of the most astounding, heart-wrenching and well-acted episodes are in the 1st 3 seasons.

Personally, I think Berman did a lot of good for Trek - he kept it alive. Okay - so maybe he also laid the foundation for it being overplayed - but some of the best Trek came out under his eye...and I will also be happy that it did.
But wasn't Berman pretty hands off when it came to ds9. Ira Behr was in charge of that, right? Berman, I'm pretty sure, was more heavily involved in tng, voy, and ent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-24-2010, 12:29 PM
I heard he feasts on the flesh of Star Wars fans! Beware!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-26-2010, 06:11 PM
I also did not completely get the hate some people heaped on Berman. I mean it's not like what Joel Schumacher did to Batman or anything (love that Robot Chicken sketch where a sci-fi con attendee declares, "Joel Schumacher is history's greatest monster!"). I'd say that unless someone laid out a well-documented pro/con chart, I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he did more good than bad and kept things afloat.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-26-2010, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
ive never really understood the hate for berman.
i dont think he was the best writer and things got away from him at the end with nemesis and enterprise but he did give us what i like to think as the golden era of star trek
the later years of tng, all of ds9 and the early part of voyager, along with first contact. its not like his entire reign was a disaster.

nemesis and enterprise were not even as bad as many people say



as for that article im not sure why that guys think the first three season of ds9 need to be forgotten. ive been re-watching them recently and they have some amazing episodes
I was rewatching Nemesis and I just can't see exactly why people seem to hate it. I mean I myself when I first watched it hated it and refused to watch it again when ever some one wanted to, but the other day I said what the hell and put it on and I just couldn't understand why in the world I couldn't get into it before.
As for Enterprise, I watched the whole series as part of a marathon I'm having to watch every Star Trek episode and movie and I can tell you that I was into it right up until season 3. At that point it's all WAY too dark for a Star Trek series and a little too reminiscent of the 9/11 and post 9/11 events, which I guess it stands to reason that the writers would vent using the show as a format for that. It just made it hard to watch and get into knowing it was supposed to be a Star Trek show. I find it funny that season 4 was actually the one season that starts to feel like a real Star Trek show and it's the one they pulled the plug on it, lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-26-2010, 06:53 PM
I grew up in time to catch most of Next-Gen and on, and in all honesty kinda dislike Roddenberry's work in ToS, a lot of it seemed, and I am just going to out and say it, dumb. Theme planets, always getting stuck on some planet or another before Kirk either Macguyver'd his way out or killed the beasty of the day and then went home and spent q-time with the green colored lady of the day. While that latter plot line stayed in Trek (aside from sleazy captains), it became much less a one-man army thing and much more refined crew working together. I also noticed the more the cast was allowed to direct the shows, the better the episodes. Got no shame in admitting Voyager was my favorite (until Seven...) and while I know this will negate most of my say in this for some odd "Voyager fans are stupid" reason, the episodes written by Robert MacNeil (Tom Paris) remain some of my favorites.

Guess what I am saying is while Roddenberry gave birth to this amazing brain child it's the people that acted in it and later on Berman that made it what it is. Can any of you truly say you only liked TOS? I can't imagine how DS9 would have been if Roddenberry directed it, for starters there would have been no Dominion War, probably no Prophets (or they woulda just been laughably bad). We wouldn't have had the Borg I don't think if Berman wasn't there to knock heads with Gene, while the Borg did become a bad joke ultimately they were still important.

I only really disagreed with his work a few times, Seven on Voyager and the looping plot of them finding a way home or finding a way to cut decades off the journey and she comes along like the avenging angel of death and stops them from using it, gets scolded by the captain and does it again next episode. Beyond that it's obvious why she was put in the show. However I did enjoy some of the humor between her and Tuvok and I am to a degree glad it saved the ratings enough to allow Voyager to keep going, despite the kinda anti-climatic ending. and secondly Enterprise. I thought most of it was terrible or boring and on that note I am not surprised it got not only canceled but that they quite literally "killed it with fire", eliminating any chance of a return.

I chock the failure of Enterprise up to the audience it was targeting and the fact that by then every single idea in Trek had been played out to the beating a dead horse point. Hardcore fans of the cannon moved away from it when it started rewriting things and your average TV viewer just looked at it like "...what?" They also tried to make it way to deep, time traveling aliens spooky sphere builders (that totally smacked of Halo and the Forerunner's Constructs, wait did I say that? <.<) and it backfired for some really lame episodes.

In conclusion I don't see Berman as a monster, I see him as the man that kept Trek alive as long as it has been, has he made mistakes, oh hell yes, then again I see the ToS as a mistake most of the time.
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