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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-25-2010, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
who can judge when to click
I think you're missing the point here. We're talking about skills that we use 100% of the time. Every time it runs out we immediately recast it. There is no "Judging when to click", you just do it when the timer is up. The problem is that the timer is up every few seconds, so we're more or less mashing that button constantly, and there's really no need for it to be like that when other abilities last 5-10x as long.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-25-2010, 06:07 PM
The Op is talking about powers like Target Optics. The effect of which lasts longer than the cooldown takes and therefore is able to be immediately re-cast able the second the effect ends, making it a permanently active power anyway.

Giving such an ability a longer effect duration would not effect gameplay at all, other than the physical effect having to press the button less.

Which I personally see as nothing but a positive.

Of course if we get full ground auto-fire, you could just have it on auto-fire and therefore what the Op wants would be redundant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-27-2010, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terral
I think you're missing the point here. We're talking about skills that we use 100% of the time. Every time it runs out we immediately recast it. There is no "Judging when to click", you just do it when the timer is up. The problem is that the timer is up every few seconds, so we're more or less mashing that button constantly, and there's really no need for it to be like that when other abilities last 5-10x as long.
It's very easy to miss a point. They are often very small, and are at the end of sentences.
If you want them up constantly, that's a passive.
Active buffs are activated, despite how long or short they last, or how many times you press a button.
It's neither here nor there to dwell on button pressing. I've pressed the letter o on my keyboard ninteen times just typing this.
Clearly that vowel is overpowered. This forum should know when I need to press it, and have it on automatically, so it can be used when I need it.
I'm going to file this in the not that big a deal section.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-27-2010, 03:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denare View Post
It's very easy to miss a point. They are often very small, and are at the end of sentences.
If you want them up constantly, that's a passive.
Active buffs are activated, despite how long or short they last, or how many times you press a button.
It's neither here nor there to dwell on button pressing. I've pressed the letter o on my keyboard ninteen times just typing this.
Clearly that vowel is overpowered. This forum should know when I need to press it, and have it on automatically, so it can be used when I need it.
I'm going to file this in the not that big a deal section.
subtlety is very easy to miss on the forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-28-2010, 02:58 AM
Playing as a tactics, already is pretty reduced as it is.
Weaving your short timed buffs into your playstyle FLUIDLY and EFFECTIVELY, is actually one of the few things you can do as a tactics to show an outstanding performance(and also having to use those buffs at the right moments and while in combat, because of their short duration, is what makes tactics fun to play atm).

If FF, TO, SF and the likes would just be passively present(and increasing its duration to 5 minutes, or even just 1 minute would pretty much mean that), we would just run around and all we'd do was 11112222111112212122212111111112222121212121112111 21222121212112212212121221221.
So i am 100% against any increase of duration on these specials.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-28-2010, 06:28 AM
I don't think the world would stop turning if some abilities lasted 20 seconds on a 20 second cooldown, instead of lasting 6 seconds on a 6 second cooldown. It doesn't add anything, having to press the button every 6 seconds, but instead just makes the game less enjoyable.

~20 seconds is long enough that it lasts at least half of a fight (usually a whole fight, if you're doing it right), but short enough that it disappears between fights. You still have to activate it before a fight, but you don't have to constantly press 5 (my focus fire button) every few seconds.

-- edit --
Incidentally, auto-fire in ground PvP is retarded as hell. The timing of your shots is absolutely crucial; if I had auto-fire in ground PvP I wouldn't use it.

-- edit 2 --
The Suppressing Fire CD is long enough. You only use it situationally anyway, either to prevent people running away, or to stop buttspammers. The ability isn't supposed to be used constantly...

-- edit 3 --
And another thing.... You should want Target Optics to have a lower cooldown (even if it means a shorter duration), because it applies an expose chance on enemies when you activate it! Think it through fellas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-28-2010, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
I don't think the world would stop turning if some abilities lasted 20 seconds on a 20 second cooldown, instead of lasting 6 seconds on a 6 second cooldown. It doesn't add anything, having to press the button every 6 seconds, but instead just makes the game less enjoyable.

~20 seconds is long enough that it lasts at least half of a fight (usually a whole fight, if you're doing it right), but short enough that it disappears between fights. You still have to activate it before a fight, but you don't have to constantly press 5 (my focus fire button) every few seconds.
The world will not stop turning for whatever happens in this or any other game, but it would still be a plain bad change to increase the durations.
Especially concerning FF for i so very often see tactic captains use it stupidly, not prebuffing the enemy with ff standard shots,. to buff the big hitters, instead just mindlessly hammer sniper shot after ff and the likes, a complete waste of this very powerfull buff.
Atm it really makes a difference to be able to utilize ff and other shorttimed buffs, weave these buffs into your playstyle.
I dont see a reason to make those buffs idiot proof(more than they already are) so that every tactic is pretty much the same ... just buff up at start, and fire mindlessly away with 1 and 2 and every now and then a weapons switch.

Seriously , the game already is more than simple enough
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-28-2010, 08:26 AM
I don't see what benefit having to reapply the buff every 6 seconds brings though. It doesn't make the game any more enjoyable or interesting, and just makes it more difficult for the sake of making it more difficult.

I agree that people tend to use FF wrong, just as they use Suppressing Fire wrong, or various Grenades, etc. But I don't see how having the cooldown at 20 seconds would make that any worse. You still have to be "smart" enough to press FF before you start firing, but you don't have the mindless bore of having to reapply it every few seconds. To me, 20 seconds makes a lot of sense, since it lasts long enough that you only need to apply it once (or maybe twice) per fight, but is still short enough that you have to be mindful of it when going into a fight.

The only difference a shorter duration makes is that it reduces your DPS slightly, because you have to stop firing to reapply it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-28-2010, 09:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
I don't see what benefit having to reapply the buff every 6 seconds brings though. It doesn't make the game any more enjoyable or interesting, and just makes it more difficult for the sake of making it more difficult.

I agree that people tend to use FF wrong, just as they use Suppressing Fire wrong, or various Grenades, etc. But I don't see how having the cooldown at 20 seconds would make that any worse. You still have to be "smart" enough to press FF before you start firing, but you don't have the mindless bore of having to reapply it every few seconds. To me, 20 seconds makes a lot of sense, since it lasts long enough that you only need to apply it once (or maybe twice) per fight, but is still short enough that you have to be mindful of it when going into a fight.

The only difference a shorter duration makes is that it reduces your DPS slightly, because you have to stop firing to reapply it.
I dont see it as mindless boredom to reapply FF whenever i have to, i also dont just rebuff it whenever it runs out, but maybe thats the difference.
You seem to use it as a preset buff for all your shots, while for me its an integral part of different attack patterns i use to deliver the burst i am there for(thats what tactics only real use is in ground pvp).

If i mess up, get caught in holds, or my target/targets get behind a corner, the setup is wasted and i have to start over, being flexible in it and have a fast reactiontime will make a difference between good and bad tactics here. Sloppy execution gets punished, perfect execution rewarded.

A longer duration of the buffs will just make sure, i wont have to start over.
I can be much more sloppy with my setups and can play more mindlessly, and mashing 1 and 2 will be an even greater part of ground pvp for tactics(it already is too big of a part).
Perfect use of FF will be less if at all rewarded, mindless sloppy use of it will not be punished, as you can just keep on running after your target spamming 1 and 2 with ff-buff still running.

For me the short durations of these buffs doesn't mean less but much more fun playing as a tatcics in ground pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-28-2010, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denare View Post
It's very easy to miss a point. They are often very small, and are at the end of sentences.
If you want them up constantly, that's a passive.
Active buffs are activated, despite how long or short they last, or how many times you press a button.
It's neither here nor there to dwell on button pressing. I've pressed the letter o on my keyboard ninteen times just typing this.
Clearly that vowel is overpowered. This forum should know when I need to press it, and have it on automatically, so it can be used when I need it.
I'm going to file this in the not that big a deal section.
Ok then, let's just make everyone's buffs last one second. Obviously that wouldn't be particularly bad, since it doesn't matter how many times you press a button. Just spend the entire game pushing each buff in succession, trying hopelessly to have them all activated at once.

In every MMO I have played prior to this, the self-buffs have lasted 1-5 minutes. This game is different, and I think 5 minutes would be very excessive in this context. However, the longest buff in the game that I have seen is only 60 seconds, though it doesn't seem to be common. Most of my buffs as a Tactical last 30 seconds or less. Given that Engineer's turrets and such last for much, much longer than that, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for 6 second or 15 second buffs to be increased to 30 or 45 seconds. Either that, or change the way those buffs work so that it's more like HYT - after all, if they made it 6 seconds so that you could only get off one shot, why not just make it so that it works only for the next shot?
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