Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
04-28-2010, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikamaru317 View Post
The devs have offered up a good compromise here. We should accept it, rather than protesting for full 3d movement that play testers have already said is disorienting and doesn't work in the game.
Agreed. One of the things I didn't like about Bridge Commander was how combat still seemed to boil down to "stay on the enemy's ass while rolling and wiggling to distribute fire", especially if you went and played a non-Federation ship. The enemies whose ships were strongest on their ventral side were kinda interesting but that just shifted "stay on their ass" to "stay below them".
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
04-28-2010, 01:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
Optional DP doesn't change the Star Trek feel of the maneuverability system.
That's not the point, use your brain and read the post, the point is that they said no, and stated that it would not work, but after so many players complained, they eventually changed their mind.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
04-28-2010, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
That's not the point, use your brain and read the post, the point is that they said no, and stated that it would not work, but after so many players complained, they eventually changed their mind.
sorry to call you out, but proof of where they said it didn't work. if I recall right Zinc doesn't like death pens that's why it was not in there. added to that the death pin and 360 are two different animals. one is a random modifier that can be added on, like them adding a new buff. the other is a game changing mechanic that would change the core of the game. it would change the type of game that this is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
04-28-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aris
The current system is appropriate to Star Trek. Check your "realism" at the door. That's how Trek works, that's how the game should work.
If only this logic were applied to everything else. Too often, the essence of Star Trek has had to take a back seat to gameplay. Why is it that gameplay is now being pushed to the side in preference of Star Trek-iness?

More consistency, please.

As for the question at hand; I would like to see full 3D, but will be happy with an 85 degree pitch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
04-28-2010, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
That's not the point, use your brain and read the post, the point is that they said no, and stated that it would not work, but after so many players complained, they eventually changed their mind.
People also thought if they complained loud enough they would remove the skill cap, we see how that went as well.

Past Performance is not an indicator of future results in this case.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
04-28-2010, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
sorry to call you out, but proof of where they said it didn't work
Do you want proof?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
If I recall right Zinc doesn't like death pens that's why it was not in there.
The DP was in on Tribble on all difficulty settings when the first DP build went to the Tribble Server and was later removed because of a minority of forum users complaining about it not being "optional" before testing and some complained after testing.

The removal of the DP from the normal difficulty setting had nothing to do with Zinc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodi-emish
Added to that the death pin and 360 are two different animals. one is a random modifier that can be added on, like them adding a new buff. the other is a game changing mechanic that would change the core of the game. it would change the type of game that this is.
Read my reply to AtomicFB.

As for you thinking 3D movement "would change the type of game that this is", how and why exactly do you believe that?

Allowing 3D Starship movement would allow for a much greater space combat experience, it would allow for canon Star Trek Space Combat, it would only affect space combat by taking away the current restraints on the Starships that we Command, which results in a number of in game features becoming a lot easier and it would also allow for ventral and dorsal shields to be used.

So how exactly does that change the type of game that STO is, as adding 3D Starship movement is nothing more than an improvement upon a limited space shooter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
04-28-2010, 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alecto View Post
They also said no to an "optional" DP, but the people who complained got it in the end, and everyone of the forum community members who are the players of STO, deserve to have their say on this topic, not just the minority, but the entire player base.
There is a huge difference between the two.

In the month or so leading up to the Injury System being placed on Tribble for testing, all communication from Cryptic on the forums and via interviews/podcasts was stating that the DP system would be optional. Suddenly, it appears on Tribble as non-optional. Players expressing their opinion on being told one thing, then handed another is a legitimate grievance.

In terms of full 3D movement, the devs have said since before the game was even live that 3D movement would not be part of the game, so there is no reason to expect it.

Huge difference.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
04-28-2010, 02:05 PM
[quote=Alecto;2607719]Do you want proof?




The DP was in on Tribble on all difficulty settings when the first DP build went to the Tribble Server and was later removed because of a minority of forum users complaining about it not being "optional" before testing and some complained after testing.

The removal of the DP from the normal difficulty setting had nothing to do with Zinc.



when i said proof I mean an outside source. like this one.

Zinkievich said Cryptic's philosophy has been that death penalties in the genre are typically just a time penalty, and they prevent players from getting back into their game and enjoying it.


Zinc's own words.

added to that you also have Jack.

An entire survey of the taken by the Star Trek Online community is going to be created into the next expansion called Season 2. “What the players want is exactly what we’re going to give them”, Jack says with authority. When posted a question of a death penalty or lack thereof, he admits that the community has strongly requested it and it will be in an upcoming patch. “What is fun about a death penalty” he jokes but then tells us a deep, dark developer secret that the only reason why a death penalty is incorporated into a game is to get the player to play longer.


source


last Zinc is the lead designer. he is the one who runs the team on STO, so the removal,or adding of the DP went through him.

also it's proof like that, or as the internet saying is. Link or it did not happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
04-28-2010, 02:22 PM
None of your opinions.

I would like to be able to go straight up or down 90 Degrees.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
04-28-2010, 02:23 PM
Sure two of the Cryptic STO Team stated in interviews that it was optional, but that was taken out of context by the majority of readers and when they did eventually get the DP to Tribble, it was intended to be for all difficulty settings so that every player would be able to experience the new feature, but it was the minority of forum users that changed their mind about it and sure yeah, the decision more than likely did go through Zinc, considering he is the EP of STO, but the source cause for its removal from the normal setting was the forum community users.

So my original point still stands, that if the majority of players want something, the Devs consistently state that they will make it so or find a reasonable compromise and all I am doing here in this thread, is allow the majority to give accurate feedback, as the Dev Team don't seem interested in doing so as they have made a "firm decision" which was most likely the result of the forum users feedback at the time of testing back very early beta days.

So why not allow the entire player base to voice their opinion? Maybe the Dev team won't risk the results coming out positive for 3D Starship movement, who knows, all I know is, they haven't made the effort.
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