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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-03-2010, 01:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andor View Post
Nice post.

This just proves that Rapid Fire II and Attack pattern Omega III is better then Rapid fire III.
Attack pattern Omega III give 50% damage buff to all damage and makes you immune to holds ... for 30 seconds, Rapid Fire III gives you a 10% increase over rapid fire II to cannon fire for 15 seconds.
Thx Andor.
But I wouldn't compare it that way, it's not the same base value. CRF increase is based off of the actual numbers ingame, from the keybar tooltips. What is reported for Attack Patterns is calculated on the base DPS value, before any skills or consoles are taken into account. I wouldn't be surprised that APO's relative 50% increase is actually lower than CRF's absolute 30% increase.

Edit: OK, I just went back to check it. Here are the exact DPS values:

Guns and stats same as per post above.

Attack Pattern Alpha III, all relevant skills at 9 (reported as 60% damage increase)
Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons Mk X - 1503
Plasma Turret Mk X - 675

Attack Pattern Omega III, all relevant skills at 9 (reported as 50% damage increase)
Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons Mk X - 1470
Plasma Turret Mk X - 660

So it seems that by calculating the difference in 10% DPS equals roughly 33, base DPS is around 330 for DHC's and 15 for Turrets.

Actual real value increase over the reported default DPS is roughly 15% for Attack Pattern Alpha III, and roughly 13% for Attack Pattern Omega III.

If we assume that 330 DPS is the base value, then 50% and 60% increase written in the tool tips calculates correctly and equals to above reported, much smaller actual increases.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-03-2010, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andor View Post
Nice post.

This just proves that Rapid Fire II and Attack pattern Omega III is better then Rapid fire III.
Attack pattern Omega III give 50% damage buff to all damage and makes you immune to holds ... for 30 seconds, Rapid Fire III gives you a 10% increase over rapid fire II to cannon fire for 15 seconds.
Do those stack directly, or are there diminishing returns? IMO, it's horribly OP'd if you can stack C:RF II and AP:O III for a 90% damage buff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-03-2010, 04:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Calidor View Post
Thx Andor.
But I wouldn't compare it that way, it's not the same base value. CRF increase is based off of the actual numbers ingame, from the keybar tooltips. What is reported for Attack Patterns is calculated on the base DPS value, before any skills or consoles are taken into account. I wouldn't be surprised that APO's relative 50% increase is actually lower than CRF's absolute 30% increase.

Edit: OK, I just went back to check it. Here are the exact DPS values:

Guns and stats same as per post above.

Attack Pattern Alpha III, all relevant skills at 9 (reported as 60% damage increase)
Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons Mk X - 1503
Plasma Turret Mk X - 675

Attack Pattern Omega III, all relevant skills at 9 (reported as 50% damage increase)
Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons Mk X - 1470
Plasma Turret Mk X - 660

So it seems that by calculating the difference in 10% DPS equals roughly 33, base DPS is around 330 for DHC's and 15 for Turrets.

Actual real value increase over the reported default DPS is roughly 15% for Attack Pattern Alpha III, and roughly 13% for Attack Pattern Omega III.

If we assume that 330 DPS is the base value, then 50% and 60% increase written in the tool tips calculates correctly and equals to above reported, much smaller actual increases.
Nice testing

please correct me if I'm wrong but it still looks like APO III with Rapid fire II would be better then rapid fire III. That 13% is for all weapon attacks, it lasts a lot longer, and thats not even counting the 30 second hold immunity.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-03-2010, 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andor View Post
Nice testing

please correct me if I'm wrong but it still looks like APO III with Rapid fire II would be better then rapid fire III. That 13% is for all weapon attacks, it lasts a lot longer, and thats not even counting the 30 second hold immunity.
So true. Even nowadays when APO lost it's functionality as a hold counter, it's still a great power and prolly the best for Tac Cmdr (together with APB III for more support-type roles).

I'll run some more tests tommorrow to see how they stack, but I'm guessing right now that they have significant diminishing returns.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-04-2010, 05:44 PM
OK, I've done some stacking testing, with very interesting results. There are diminishing returns, but they don't look so drastic.

First, a simple APA III + APO III stacking test:
DHC - 1.670 DPS
Turret - 750 DPS
Which is roughly 28% increase over the base reported values without any powers active.
(it is a 14% increase over just APO III, and 11% over APA III).

APA III + CRF II
DHC - 2.108
Turret - 948
A whopping 62% increase over the base values, and roughly 15% increase over CRF II.

APO III + CRF III
DHC - 2.061
Turret - 927
Again, an impressive increase of 58% over the base, and 13% over CRF II.

And finally, all stacked together - APA III + APO III + CRF II
DHC - 2.172
Turret - 977
Combined, they give a huge boost of 67% over the base DPS values, however it's a meager 3% increase over APA III + CRF II.

All in all, despite diminishing returns it's still a huge boost and a balancing nightmare. For us escort jocks it's our lifeline, however from an absolute, objective point of view, it really is OP'd even more so when you take into account that it's not even a spike dmg, since it can be sustained for at least 15 secs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-04-2010, 06:03 PM
Great stuff Calidor,

This is just one more reason to stagger buffs. With the new SNB some people have been complaining that it drops all your buffs.
But this testing shows that its not really that important to stack all your buffs at once anyways. So instead of just throwing everything on and losing them all to SNB its better to stagger the buffs so you don't loss them all plus you increase the amount of time you are doing heavy damage thus increasing your over all dps.

For me its attack with CRF || and APA, then when that wheres off switch to CRF || and APO. When that wheres off you can go back to APA because its probably recycled by now.

I guess the only question now is what do Fire on my mark III, and go down fighting II add to the picture. Is it better to add them or to stagger them because of diminishing returns.
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