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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
04-30-2010, 01:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stingray10 View Post
The players you are leaving also pay to play.
Exactly, so give them the decision to leave if they want to. Taking away a player's ability to make that decision period is unacceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
FWIW, I don't think it's selfish to leave a match for any reason. If leaving a game only advantages you at the expense of everyone else, then the game is designed stupidly. The game needn't be designed in such a cack-handed, perversely unrewarding way. The vast majority of other online games aren't designed like that, but for some reason this game is.
Well put, but I would still accept it as selfish.

I hate to get into psychology, but there's no such thing as a selfless action. All that a person decides to do is the result of some eventual benefit they receive, whether it be emotional, intellectual, or physical. Otherwise no one would ever make a decision period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
04-30-2010, 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
FWIW, I don't think it's selfish to leave a match for any reason. If leaving a game only advantages you at the expense of everyone else, then the game is designed stupidly. The game needn't be designed in such a cack-handed, perversely unrewarding way. The vast majority of other online games aren't designed like that, but for some reason this game is.
If you want to leave a map so urgently, just run into the opposition and commit suicide a couple of times, this'll take a few minutes and its done.
You are still screwing your own team, but at least not the opposition, who were screwed so many times by leavers and wasted and dead maps before.

Still not queueing up at all would be a better option for notoric leavers.
And if its a real "emergency" you propably gonna switch of the game anyway, so who cares.

For months now leavers have made maps miserable for those who really wanted to play, i assume now leavers will have to "suffer" a little while without that option, until cryptic figures out something else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
04-30-2010, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeport
Exactly, so give them the decision to leave if they want to. Taking away a player's ability to make that decision period is unacceptable.



Well put.
So in your mind it is ok to put 4 other players at a huge disadvantage and undermine their enjoyment because you just for watever reason want to leave?? Most matches last only 15 minutes cracked planet even less. This is really a pathetic that you are actually trying to justify this IMO. Isnt there a single player game you would rather be playing somewhere??
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
04-30-2010, 02:01 AM
Quote:
If you want to leave a map so urgently, just run into the opposition and commit suicide a couple of times, this'll take a few minutes and its done.
You are still screwing your own team, but at least not the opposition, who were screwed so many times by leavers and wasted and dead maps before.

Still not queueing up at all would be a better option for notoric leavers.
And if its a real "emergency" you propably gonna switch of the game anyway, so who cares.

For months now leavers have made maps miserable for those who really wanted to play, i assume now leavers will have to "suffer" a little while without that option, until cryptic figures out something else.
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).

This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.

The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
04-30-2010, 02:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).

This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.

The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Those are some great idea's.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
04-30-2010, 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise View Post
Yes, the fact that leaving makes life miserable for everybody else is a problem -- but the solution is to design the game so that it doesn't make life miserable for anyone at all. It would be really simple to make leaving completely neutral for everybody else -- just reduce the number of kills necessary to win (i.e. scale the win conditions based on the number of people playing). Or, alternatively, have a time limit on maps that is dependent on the number of players on each side. So a 1 on 1 wouldn't require 40 kills in ground and 15 in space, but rather 5 kills in both, and/or have a max time limit of 15 minutes (winner is whoever has most kills after that amount of time).

This not only reduces the incentive for people to leave maps, but also makes the game easier for those who stay.

The reason why people get so upset by people leaving, and why it appears as though leaving is this really awful thing that only terrible people do, is because the game is designed so poorly.
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.

Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?

You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!

Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
04-30-2010, 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goukes View Post
Actually its a bit more than that ... if you have a date with some friends to play basketball(or insert whatever sports you play, or any "real" game you like to play with "real" friends), you'd play till the game is over, not until 3 minutes into the game when you start losing and suddenly decide you don't want to play anymore.

Its a common curtesy, and besides if you really have fun in a game, you can play it through till the end even if you lose, and if you don't have fun in it , why bother playing it at all ?

You think you can't play a whole STO map till the end when you start are losing? don't queue please!

Leavers will allways make maps miserable for their own team as well as the opposition, regardless of what cryptic designs, simply due to the fact that they uneven the game(more than the messed up queue already does), and this allways means less fun for both sides, cryptic cant change that part of the leaver problem, it's not in their hands.
I see where he is comming from if the low side is Klingon's some unfortunatley wont come out of cloak (I usually wait a few minutes get bored and if no reinforcements come then I see if I can take 1 down with me LOL). So I like his time limmit based on that.

On a side note: You can add the suiciders who are just in it to get their Daily quests done.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
04-30-2010, 02:43 AM
So if e.g. the doorbell rings, and we were out of combat, we could just leave the match and see who is at the door. The next one on the waiting list would have gotten the invite and our team was just for a short time at a disadvantage.

Now we would need to go afk. Our team would need to fight how long it may takes with one less player. Or they are klingons and decide to wait while being cloaked... again how long it may takes for the one missing player to come back or until they run out of patience.

Great change.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
04-30-2010, 02:50 AM
Well I prefer being on the side with fewer players anyway :p Always have done, in any game...

A new thing related to this has happened too, with queues only being open for the first 2 mins (IIRC) to new players. So say someone queues up and then declines the invite, other players only have 2 minutes to join before the queues close; if no new players join in those 2 minutes, your team ends up at a numerical disadvantage for the entire game. Again, stupid design...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
04-30-2010, 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schneemann View Post
So if e.g. the doorbell rings, and we were out of combat, we could just leave the match and see who is at the door. The next one on the waiting list would have gotten the invite and our team was just for a short time at a disadvantage.

Now we would need to go afk. Our team would need to fight how long it may takes with one less player. Or they are klingons and decide to wait while being cloaked... again how long it may takes for the one missing player to come back or until they run out of patience.

Great change.
Bah who ever is at the door is either trying to collect a bill or sell you something, they can wait.. Id prefer the option for players to leave if they lost something. Like 1000 honor (rated by rank ofcourse) BG/RA 5's would be discouraged to leave matches but if unavoidable it isnt game breaking.
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