Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
05-03-2010, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QE2
why would it not change on alien planets? our history is human..with all the faults and great things that come with it...
Well, for one, given that everything we know about super intelligence, all we have as a basis for, is the human race.

Pre-suppose, that in order for a life form to get off the planet they inhabit, they would need to build a vehicle to escape the gravity if all the laws of physics stay the same throughout the universe.

Aliens will have to deal with physics along with breathing apparatus, lighting, food stoage, etc.


If it were a hostile species to start, they could not co-operate together for fear of being weak, or if they used slaves to build ships, the slaves would sabotage the ships. Competition between each other for dominance to be the captain would create disharmony and distrust.

These basic issues would encompass all space faring species. In order to build ships of the magnitute of interplanetary travel, you would have to have cooperation, in order to have that, you must have trust. To have trust, you must have practiced it.

Therfore you know that trust has better outcome than distrust, regardless of being human.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
05-03-2010, 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribbler View Post
Well, for one, given that everything we know about super intelligence, all we have as a basis for, is the human race.

Pre-suppose, that in order for a life form to get off the planet they inhabit, they would need to build a vehicle to escape the gravity if all the laws of physics stay the same throughout the universe.

Aliens will have to deal with physics along with breathing apparatus, lighting, food stoage, etc.


If it were a hostile species to start, they could not co-operate together for fear of being weak, or if they used slaves to build ships, the slaves would sabotage the ships. Competition between each other for dominance to be the captain would create disharmony and distrust.

These basic issues would encompass all space faring species. In order to build ships of the magnitute of interplanetary travel, you would have to have cooperation, in order to have that, you must have trust. To have trust, you must have practiced it.

Therfore you know that trust has better outcome than distrust, regardless of being human.
Because the US space program wasn't a competition between opposing factions during the Cold War or anything.

You can have aggressive space-faring nations. Mutual self-interest of aggressive peoples can help them properly subjugate entire swaths of carebears.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
05-03-2010, 12:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by denare View Post
I like the microcosm of the story.
We want to know what's out there ... but what's out there might kill us.
So let's go out there ... but don't talk to strangers.
Heck, lets take the approach that the Founders took, and take aliens to serve us! Imposing order on a potentially dangerous galaxy, with an army of Minions bred to obey and destroy....we could have our own Dominion!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
05-03-2010, 12:35 PM
Intelligence as found in the Human species needed a cataclysm and eradication of a dominant group of creatures seemingly incapable of making that final sentient leap. Life on a basic scale might be "supported" by the composition of the universe itself, and might emerge wherever there is shelter enough for it.

But the kind of brainpower we have now, would at least have been delayed or postponed indefinitely if not for mass extinction. Today we live because there is an intermediate respite from forces that repeatedly devastate the Earth. We were almost wiped out at least once in a relatively "newer" history, just by "native" Volcanic activity. And we might also do ourselves in with destructive tools of War, if nature don't see fit to remove this organic infestation. :p

Life is a precarious balance at the edge of the abyss. No wonder we don't get many radio signals from Aliens. The conditions for stability and environmental support at the higher spectrum of our existence, appears to be very complicated. Life needs an absence of cataclysms, to evolve into such an advanced state, and yet our presence here was assured by the very thing that could destroy us. That is a rather high staked game of dice.

The universe is made up of uncountable objects perpetually moving around, and there will always be collisions and explosions from all the matter whirling about at super speeds. It is the rule of things that matter collides sooner or later. So feel lucky while it lasts. It's like winning the lottery many times over.

---
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
05-03-2010, 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
Because the US space program wasn't a competition between opposing factions during the Cold War or anything.

You can have aggressive space-faring nations. Mutual self-interest of aggressive peoples can help them properly subjugate entire swaths of carebears.
Heh, you are right about the carebear part, but suppose you are talking about the Cold War. We are still about 100 years from getting to the point of going to Alpha Centauri and another 80 years in-flight to get there if my memory serves me well. The Cold war may have started the race but surely we have made greater accomplishments during the non-cold war era.

Still no reason to believe an alien civilization has any different characteristics other than looking different.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
05-03-2010, 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sernon
Intelligence as found in the Human species needed a cataclysm and eradication of a dominant group of creatures seemingly incapable of making that final sentient leap. Life on a basic scale might be "supported" by the composition of the universe itself, and might emerge wherever there is shelter enough for it.

But the kind of brainpower we have now, would at least have been delayed or postponed indefinitely if not for mass extinction. Today we live because there is an intermediate respite from forces that repeatedly devastate the Earth. We were almost wiped out at least once in a relatively "newer" history, just by "native" Volcanic activity. And we might also do ourselves in with destructive tools of War, if nature don't see fit to remove this organic infestation. :p

Life is a precarious balance at the edge of the abyss. No wonder we don't get many radio signals from Aliens. The conditions for stability and environmental support at the higher spectrum of our existence, appears to be very complicated. Life needs an absence of cataclysms, to evolve into such an advanced state, and yet our presence here was assured by the very thing that could destroy us. That is a rather high staked game of dice.

The universe is made up of uncountable objects perpetually moving around, and there will always be collisions and explosions from all the matter whirling about at super speeds. It is the rule of things that matter collides sooner or later. So feel lucky while it lasts. It's like winning the lottery many times over.

---
Well said. I wouldn't want to battle you if you started ranting about Cryptic. I would have to bring out my encyclopedias, dictionary, and thesaurus.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
05-03-2010, 12:41 PM
Unfortunately, I believe Stephen Hawking is quite correct about this.

The problem is that it's almost impossible that, out of all of the various intelligent species we might bump into, that it would be a species at our level that we would meet. It's much more likely that we'd meet a much more advanced society, and would have little to offer them unless they were a peaceful species interested in the arts, music, literature, etc.

I'm not sure how many advanced high art cultures are out there, and whether those would be the ones investing in the large ships that could cross interstellar differences.

So the most likely permutation is that we meet a species that is bent on conquest or resource collection, and is far more advanced than we are.

That doesn't bode well for relations, unfortunately. How have advanced humans done in interactions with more primitive humans?

That doesn't change the allure of Science FICTION, however. We still love reading and watching stories about things that may never happen, or may not be possible.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
05-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Brilliant? Most intelligent mind of our time? I think not. Hawking may be a genius when it comes to astrophysics, but like Einstein, he has no clue how to exist in the real world and how to coexist with other human beings, much less aliens. His theories are just that, theories. He's guessing based on his own assumptions and equations. He doesn't know anything. And none of us really ever will, until we go into space and actually meet other alien species.

STO will continue and the ideology of Star Trek will go on. One xenophobic mathematician isn't going to change the minds of every person on Earth.


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