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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
05-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Civil? You can't keep this civil. It's no more civil than my 2 year old falling on the floor crying because she isn't getting what she wants.

Same thing here. WAH WAH I want the ship how dare you make me have to recruit people to your game!

People cried in the same way about the stupid zebra in WoW too. If you can't spend the time or effort to get the awesome ship, you don't deserve it. I mean, they obviously don't want everyone and their mom flying it. So it's tied to a hard task.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
05-05-2010, 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Why do people need a giant carrot to try and bring their friends into the game? Does Cryptic think that liking this game is so embarassing in its current state that such a bribe is needed? The people who would be most suited for this program have already tried, successfully or not. Anyone who wouldn't be recommending this game to their friends without the giant dangling carrot isn't exactly being encouraged to be honest about the game's rough spots that gave them misgivings in the first place.
Well i do not work in marketing and maybe someone who does could provide answers for your questions, but the motives behind a RAF system have nothing to do with the game itself, every MMO has this sort of thing. And not just MMOs, many products are marketed via referel system. For example in Germany it is very common that if you get a friend to subscripe to a magazine you get all sorts of stuff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
05-05-2010, 03:19 PM
They were offering perks with every copy of the game. To get people to buy them from different places or to buy more than one copy. So offering rewards to get people to get subscribers isn't a new thing. They have been using this tactic the whole time.

I have to say I want the hologram. I don't know anyone that I could talk into subscribing for a month to get it. I could buy another copy of the game. Plus a one month subscription. I wont though. I have no chance at getting this T5 ship and I don't care. I can't believe the tantrums people are throwing over this ship. OMG there is something in a video game I can't have. The thing is the ship doesn't say exclusively offered from the referral program.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
05-05-2010, 03:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacatchman View Post

People cried in the same way about the stupid zebra in WoW too. If you can't spend the time or effort to get the awesome ship, you don't deserve it. I mean, they obviously don't want everyone and their mom flying it. So it's tied to a hard task.
Only reason I got annoyed about that offer in WoW was because its illegal to run referal programs like that here in Denmark (as it falls under pyramid scheme laws) so I couldn't get it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
05-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert
I disagree with the OP Cryptic should always try to bring in in players. It's good sign they are trying to bring in new players. It means they are committed to improving the game and want more to play it. They should never stop trying to bring in more players.
I never said that Cryptic should not "always try to bring in more players"... the point of the OP (which I suspect you did not read) was to say that the way they are going about it is unwise. Didn't you catch that part? And if you did... you failed to counter that point.

Why invite people to a game that is so unfinished? YOU may not think so, but compared to the gaming community at large... I would say there is a consensus. As someone else pointed out, there are some potentially neat things on the horizon for season 2 or season 3, why not wait then? As it is, its a game with repetitive shallow gameplay with 1.5 factions. You are in essence loosing sight of this game's long term success. Invite people to a time that doesn't have the maximum potential to retain them isn't the most ideal, now is it? I'd love to see you argue this. Since you love STO so much, I'm surprise you are not using foresight in this matter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tekel View Post
Let me start off by saying that I was one who thought they'd stay with this game for awhile. I even avoided the "doom and gloom" topics on the forums. I agree with OP. I apologize for having a part in having that one shot down (hugs to Jacob). The real issue for me (and ultimately the reason I quit) was that I wasn't getting what I paid for. I'm glad that there are people here who do feel that they are, but as for me (and for a lot of people who we are too quick to dismiss as naysayers) the biggest point of contention was and is that we're getting band-aids for something that needs surgery. I will gladly eat my words should the content expansion be game-wide. There have been many excellent posts by people far more eloquent than I on how to do that.

p.s. If you feel it necessary to say, "You don't know what you're talking about. You don't know MMO's," to me, so be it. I know what I've played and what kept my attention (and money), and have no purpose in measuring my e-manhood against yours.

Thanks for the hug man. Appreciated!

But I agree, band-aids do not make for a great game that desperately needs some hardcore consideration and potential revamping. The truth is... it is likely that Cryptic are not incompetent or unwilling... they probably just don't have the time, manpower, resources, and technology to do it. By launching too early, they are having to rush to release things to keep people interested, and we know their team is smaller compared to other MMO's. A former cryptic employee stated once that what they would have 1 person working on at Cryptic, they would have ten people working on at so and so company. That wasn't verbatim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelteel View Post
Whats the point in a reward no one wants? I think it is the nature of a RAF system to give something as a reward desired by many people. Lets be honest, if they designed some new never before seen ship, no one would actually care to participate in the system. So i say threads like this are a big acknowledgement of cryptics marketing idea of the RAF program.

And for the record, i would also love to fly a Galaxy X.
Making a reward that everyone wants is cool. But it's slightly ... surprising that they would choose an item that people wanted in at launch well before the game released. Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.

An easy solution to this would just be to make the Galaxy X available in the C-Store and instead reward people with additional Cryptic Points. That way A) its available to all (albeit through seedy means) and B) RAF participants can CHOOSE what they want.

Problem somewhat solved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
05-05-2010, 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.
A canon ship that was in a few minutes of one episode out of 28 seasons and 11 movies over a 43 year period.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
05-05-2010, 08:55 PM
[quote=JacobFlowers;2637498]I never said that Cryptic should not "always try to bring in more players"... the point of the OP (which I suspect you did not read) was to say that the way they are going about it is unwise. Didn't you catch that part? And if you did... you failed to counter that point.

Why invite people to a game that is so unfinished? YOU may not think so, but compared to the gaming community at large... I would say there is a consensus. As someone else pointed out, there are some potentially neat things on the horizon for season 2 or season 3, why not wait then? As it is, its a game with repetitive shallow gameplay with 1.5 factions. You are in essence loosing sight of this game's long term success. Invite people to a time that doesn't have the maximum potential to retain them isn't the most ideal, now is it? I'd love to see you argue this. Since you love STO so much, I'm surprise you are not using foresight in this matter.




Thanks for the hug man. Appreciated!

But I agree, band-aids do not make for a great game that desperately needs some hardcore consideration and potential revamping. The truth is... it is likely that Cryptic are not incompetent or unwilling... they probably just don't have the time, manpower, resources, and technology to do it. By launching too early, they are having to rush to release things to keep people interested, and we know their team is smaller compared to other MMO's. A former cryptic employee stated once that what they would have 1 person working on at Cryptic, they would have ten people working on at so and so company. That wasn't verbatim.



Making a reward that everyone wants is cool. But it's slightly ... surprising that they would choose an item that people wanted in at launch well before the game released. Furthermore, it is disappointing that they are choosing a CANON ship as an exclusive reward. That is smoewhat nuts.

An easy solution to this would just be to make the Galaxy X available in the C-Store and instead reward people with additional Cryptic Points. That way A) its available to all (albeit through seedy means) and B) RAF participants can CHOOSE what they want.

Problem somewhat solved.
[/QUO

I read your post but it doesn't make much sense. You don't like the game so you use every flame bait topic you can find. To complain about the game you say you don't play. We understand you don't like the game. They released the game to early horse died two months ago and you are still beating it.

I really don't think you should be trying to give business advice to Cryptic. You made a lifetime commitment to game you don't like. I still don't know how anyone could do that. With open beta and you had a certain amount of time to get a refund. This MMO isn't just about you Jacob. There are lots of us who like this game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
05-05-2010, 09:57 PM
Hey Jacob, said this in another thread but I'm curious of your thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Actually, it's worse. I think I just figured out the plan. I think they never intended to actually keep the Galaxy-X in the referral package.

See all the people crying for it to appear in the C-Store? I'm sure they'll happily oblige. Remember what was sworn up one side and down the other before launch? That nothing that had actual in-game effects would be sold in the C-store and not available in game? Now they can say they changed that by popular demand.

Tinfoil hat time? Maybe. But it still makes me feel ill.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
05-05-2010, 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert

I read your post but it doesn't make much sense. You don't like the game so you use every flame bait topic you can find. To complain about the game you say you don't play. We understand you don't like the game. They released the game to early horse died two months ago and you are still beating it.

I really don't think you should be trying to give business advice to Cryptic. You made a lifetime commitment to game you don't like. I still don't know how anyone could do that. With open beta and you had a certain amount of time to get a refund. This MMO isn't just about you Jacob. There are lots of us who like this game.
Flame bait? You'd have much more credibility if instead of replying in vague and sweeping arguments, you actually tackled specific things I said. And I never said anything about it all being about "me", you are making it as such. :p

So, I made comments about why I think your opinion isn't valid, and I backed up everything I said with reasons. Where is your rational response other than making the debate about me personally? Give me a break man.

All in all, if Cryptic had taken the time to make a game that a majority of gamers and reviewers feel is a great game to begin with, we wouldn't have the landslide of failing confidences in Cryptic and Atari to begin wtih.



Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Hey Jacob, said this in another thread but I'm curious of your thoughts.
I'd like to believe that Zinc is more genuine and sincere than trying to employ such elaborate methodology. Secondly, it just adds to the list of guffaws to their name, so I don't think it is probable. However if it is, then I tip my hat at their marketing department for being clever devils.

In any case, whats interesting is that they SHOULD be aware of this issue by now, and yet have chosen not to respond thus far. But, i won't say its not possible.

Things like the death penalty and the difficulty slider are band-aids which they used as marketing fodder to convey an image that "they listen to us"... when in actuality... the progression rate of the game was ridiculously fast. They would have had to have done something to remedy this even if we didn't speak out about it.

What Engelbert refuses to acknowledge, and a few others... are that I have been on these forums and active since I joined at the end of 2008. They don't realize that I came in to this community GUNS BLAZING with excitement, and support for Cryptic and STO. Then, slowly as time went on, I started noticing those tell tale signs that not everything was as healthy for STO as could be.

Long story short, I turned into a critic. I try to think of myself as a reasonable person. This notion is enforced by the fact that I have seen so many "fanboys" turn into skeptics, haters, critics, or simply become disenchanted. You are one of those squidheadx, since I remember even you in the past disagreeing on things that I've brought up. But now look. Its not because of my words either, you came to these conclusions and become disheartened yourself and due to Cryptic's actions/decisions. And YOU, are not the only one. I can name plenty of names here. Plenty. But I won't, cause this isn't an ego trip for me and it pains me that I wasn't wrong in the first place. Believe me, I would have liked to have been.

Oh well.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
05-05-2010, 10:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
I'd like to believe that Zinc is more genuine and sincere than trying to employ such elaborate methodology. Secondly, it just adds to the list of guffaws to their name, so I don't think it is probable. However if it is, then I tip my hat at their marketing department for being clever devils.

In any case, whats interesting is that they SHOULD be aware of this issue by now, and yet have chosen not to respond thus far. But, i won't say its not possible.
I'd like to believe that too. But they've been eroding that commitment from the beginning and keep pushing it farther. My supply of Benefit of Doubt is running a little low at the moment. Even if those statements were sincere at the time they were made, the owners may be making them go back on it to try and grab for more money or whatever. All that's perceptible on my end is credibility and integrity being sacrificed (to the vocal praise of some ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
Things like the death penalty and the difficulty slider are band-aids which they used as marketing fodder to convey an image that "they listen to us"... when in actuality... the progression rate of the game was ridiculously fast. They would have had to have done something to remedy this even if we didn't speak out about it.
In extra-hilarious news, they don't even address that issue. I'm on board with Combadge's assessment that the extra mob XP actually reduces the amount of content to cap and shouldn't be implemented until a system that lets us bring missions to our level is introduced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
Long story short, I turned into a critic. I try to think of myself as a reasonable person. This notion is enforced by the fact that I have seen so many "fanboys" turn into skeptics, haters, critics, or simply become disenchanted. You are one of those squidheadjax*, since I remember even you in the past disagreeing on things that I've brought up. But now look. Its not because of my words either, you came to these conclusions and become disheartened yourself and due to Cryptic's actions/decisions. And YOU, are not the only one. I can name plenty of names here. Plenty. But I won't, cause this isn't an ego trip for me and it pains me that I wasn't wrong in the first place. Believe me, I would have liked to have been.

Oh well.

I think we've been on the same and opposite sides at various times, though I'll certainly vouch for witnessing a general tendency for fannishness to slide to hate around here. I follow more of a downward-angled sine curve.

Honestly, you do come off as high on yourself sometimes. So do I, apparently, and sometimes I also come off as shrill and vein-poppy. But it's also clear to me you've always said honestly what you think is in the game's best interest.

*fixed for spelling. :p!
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