Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-06-2010, 12:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
But Cryptic's vision is not the same as ours.
I think, philosophically, that is a dead-end path. They make the game. If you don't buy into any of what they want to do with it ... find no common ground ... and do not share their vision ...

You're not going to really find what you're looking for from them.

Seeking changes and continually pressing them for more new stuff, and better new stuff is one thing. Asking for things that are diametrically opposed to their vision for the game? Their goals? Their plan?

It's stuff that won't happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-06-2010, 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I think, philosophically, that is a dead-end path. They make the game. If you don't buy into any of what they want to do with it ... find no common ground ... and do not share their vision ...

You're not going to really find what you're looking for from them.

Seeking changes and continually pressing them for more new stuff, and better new stuff is one thing. Asking for things that are diametrically opposed to their vision for the game? Their goals? Their plan?

It's stuff that won't happen.
I think it is clear to them by now that their initial vision, goals and plan were garbage. This game is the laughing stock of the MMO industry. No other MMO intended to be AAA material has ever tanked the way this one has.

But it doesn't have to be that way. And Cryptic is starting to realize it. They themselves are changing direction on a lot of things. And nothing I suggested here is outside the realm of possibility with what is already in the game. And in all honesty, if they really want STO to be the moneymaker it can be, then they need to stop with all the "refer a friend"-type gimmicks with their exclusive rewards which happen to be things players have been almost begging for, and start developing gameplay and content that people actually would want to play.

So far, it's the same old same old from Lieutenant all the way to RA5. The admiralty should go beyond normal gameplay and institute stuff that is bigger in scope. Namely fleet-oriented gameplay. And I meen fleet as in player guild. Right now, what is there exactly that makes being a member of a fleet any different than going it alone, aside for being able to wear a fleet uniform and have the name of your fleet under your ship name?

Do we even get out own guild hall (base of operations)?

I mean, come on.

At some point, something's just got to give.

Either this is supposed to be a AAA title or it isn't. Either they want it to succeed or they don't. It's up to them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-06-2010, 04:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
So far, it's the same old same old from Lieutenant all the way to RA5. The admiralty should go beyond normal gameplay and institute stuff that is bigger in scope. Namely fleet-oriented gameplay. And I meen fleet as in player guild. Right now, what is there exactly that makes being a member of a fleet any different than going it alone, aside for being able to wear a fleet uniform and have the name of your fleet under your ship name?

Do we even get out own guild hall (base of operations)?
I don't think adding guild halls or any other fleet-related bonuses should be part of STO.

People should want to be in a Fleet because they want to be there, not railroaded into joining because they want certain persk from them - that's just encourages people to join Fleet's to leech resources. You forgot to add fleet banks are in place, IMO that and the uniform is enough.

Guild rewards are a necessary evil in some games because the original concept/IP dictates it in some way (eg WAR, Age of Conan were sold as have guild-heavy gameplay features).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-06-2010, 04:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parrek
I don't think adding guild halls or any other fleet-related bonuses should be part of STO.

People should want to be in a Fleet because they want to be there, not railroaded into joining because they want certain persk from them - that's just encourages people to join Fleet's to leech resources. You forgot to add fleet banks are in place, IMO that and the uniform is enough.

Guild rewards are a necessary evil in some games because the original concept/IP dictates it in some way (eg WAR, Age of Conan were sold as have guild-heavy gameplay features).
Of COURSE they should want to be in a fleet because they want to be there. Remember, Martok commanded his fleet as a supreme commander out of an office on DS9. Admiral Ross was almost a resident there himself in the lst year of the Dominion War.

The guild hall thing ws just an example, anyway.

As to the rest of what I propose, what are your thoughts? If you don't like them, then what do you think that admirals in STO should be doing, and what sort of gameplay mechanics should they have to set them apart from the normal rank-and-file?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-06-2010, 04:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post

Admiral Ranks
=============
Rear Admiral (lower half) [ // ] 5 levels
Rear Admiral [ // // ] 5 levels
Vice Admiral [ // // // ] 10 levels
Admiral [ // // // // ] 10 levels
Fleet Admiral [ // // // // // ] 10 levels

.
I like a lot of the ideas you put forward, this one I'd like to discuss a bit more.

While I prefer that my character's final rank was Captain, we have RA5/BG5 so for the moment I'll work with what we have in game. While I welcome RA10 so we have a more completed feel to the level process, I hope there will be expansions that do not hinge their success on yet more ranks and more skill points. My thoughts:

How many times does the Enterprise get refitted? How many times was DS9 rebuilt or replaced? How many times did the ship/star base central to the plot have weapon or equipment upgrades? How many times did Archer, Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Sisko get assigned to a new ship/star base? I know a non-sandbox mmo needs progression otherwise some players feel they have nothing to do. Certainly if a fully-fledged diplomacy system is in place some diplomacy skills can be added, JAG/Court skills if Federation or Klingon law is to be a focus of missions then there is scope for new skills. At some point though I think the game would benefit more from content that RA10's, and the Klingons from LT/1, could enjoy without more skill points or levels being required.

I would like to see a finite limit on levels and following RA10 content is based upon progression.

We already have some of this with access to the the STF's requiring completion of the previous STFs to unlock the next one. Future content could use a similar approach with defend missions, exploration missions or PvP paths to the same end, so that people could choose their path, but all gain access to new content.

Instead of using a level gate system for access to content, once at RA10/BG10 there would be a participation gate system.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-06-2010, 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainQuirk View Post
I think it is clear to them by now that their initial vision, goals and plan were garbage. This game is the laughing stock of the MMO industry. No other MMO intended to be AAA material has ever tanked the way this one has.
Wow. See, that's kind of what I'm getting at. There's no way to build from that kind of feedback.

Quote:
They themselves are changing direction on a lot of things.
They haven't changed their direction. The things that have been implemented are all part of the their plan. Their vision. They're moving forward with these plans.

Have you tried the new Memory Alpha on Tribble? It's a huge improvement. But, it's the same system. They didn't change their direction. Dozens of players across Scores of Threads and Hundreds of Posts asked Cryptic to scrap Memory Alpha, and rebuild it completely differently. Because, it was as you might say, garbage.

And their changes to it? Not at all what some people typed pages and pages of stuff about.

This is two-fold. For once, the tech and code is in place. So for them it's a much more efficient use of their time to work with what they've already done. And build on that. As seen with Memory Alpha.

The other reason ... it sticks to their plan.

That you bought this game is already proof to them that they're not a laughing stock. That you're still playing it is proof to them that the game isn't a failure.

But I don't think your expectations of what they CAN or WILL do is realistic.

There's a diplomacy system coming. Players want that.

Aid the Planet missions ... players hated. And skipped.

Aid the Planet missions were not scrapped as total garbage. They were tweaked, but remain relatively the exact same in terms of how you do them.

They're going to be part of the diplomacy system that's coming.

That makes sense. It's what Cryptic is doing. Building on what they have.

But this is the same garbage you feel is beyond repair and needs to be scrapped.

Odds are you will find the diplomacy system as lacking and laughable as you find the rest of the game.

Because your vision doesn't mesh with their vision.

Quote:
And in all honesty, if they really want STO to be the moneymaker it can be, then they need to stop with all the "refer a friend"-type gimmicks with their exclusive rewards which happen to be things players have been almost begging for, and start developing gameplay and content that people actually would want to play.
Far more players have been begging for a T5 Defiant than the All Good Things Galaxy mutation.

BOTH are being made available. One is part of a marketing gimmick, yes. But the one far far far more players have been asking for ... is absolutely free and part of the levelling process that is going to be coming with brand new story arc and mission content ... another thing people have been begging for.

Fancy that. While post after post is wasted on a marketing gimmick ... Cryptic's hard at work giving players new levels, new content, and a tier of ship that is what they've begged for. All just for sticking with and playing the game.

That's, of course, more garbage from the laughingstock of all MMOs?

Quote:
At some point, something's just got to give.
I do agree wtih this. But my experience with how these things go, has me thinknig that you will give long before the game does. Since games really aren't anywhere near as flexible as you'd like them to be, post-launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-14-2010, 08:48 PM
I am new to MMO's, this is my first. I played starcraft for 8+ years, and now am playing SC2 as well.

I am an avid Star Trek fan so i wanted to try this out. In less than 3 weeks i am now VA1 and can not go any higher. The borg raid missions are very difficult with less than par teammates. PVP isn't really my thing.

I'm not sure how they can enhance the game without adding totally new vectors to it.Make the game more of a thinking man's (or woman's) game rather than a purely shoot em' up style. SC has a true opportunity cost aspect to it. You have to collect resources in order to build. At the same time you are tasked with defending your resource centers while still accumulating more. You could do something similar in STO.

This will be long.........

An admiral needs to be in charge of something. First, create other things for us to buy, upgrade, and configure. Things like colonies, buildings, bases, mining facilities, etc. They can have necessary modules like drills, pumps, regulators, etc. Things we have to buy or find and upgrade to make our facilities more productive. This productivity gets calculated. The more ore we mine, the more ships we can build to give to our BO's. If we dont mine and collect resources, we cant build any more ships.

Create asteroid fields in sector space. Have them appear somewhat at random. Admirals would have to find them and create mining facilities on them. They can either send out their fleet on explore missions or find one themselves. Once the facility is made, they would have to protect it, set up shipping schedules, parts deliveries, etc. Make it a producing part of the admiral's fleet. We also have to protect our shipments to and from. Let us build cargo ships to carry the goods. Different cargo classes, different speeds, to add to the complexity.

Then an admiral can create their own ship fleet. It would start with the amount of collected materials. We have to find different empty planets, asteroid belts, comets, etc with the necessary materials to construct ships. Then we use the materials to build ships. Each ship class requires different amount of materials. Small ships cost less materials, big ships cost more.

Let us promote our BO's to command their own ships. Sure they wont be as effective as our personal commanded ships, but the NPC's i fight on a daily seem to have no problem dishing out the torpedoes. I'm sure we can program the BO;s to defend themselves, patrol a facility, attack a base, etc.

So now we also have a resource gathering and combat / protection model. We use these resources to help the federation war effort. We get graded based on how much mined material we give back to the federation. We also use these resources to build and maintain our fleet. Get in a fight, damage a ship? It cost EC AND materials to repair. If you are not mining, you cant fix up your ships. Make it more of a
strategy to maintain, and expand your fleet. The bigger your fleet, the higher your rank. Not based on points
or just missions, but the size of your fleet. You command (x) mining facilities, (x) starbases, (x) colonies,
etc.

Now we could have personal fleet missions. Send your fleet to do X. You will need x amount of different types of ships to get the job done. Then the fleets are evenly spread. We can build medical ships, supply ships, etc. Each fleet mission would vary. Planet has the plague? How many hospital ships does your fleet have? The more people you save, the higher your reward. Planet under attack by the borg? Send your fleet. You can help, but you also have your highly trained previous BO's fighting with you.

Eventually we could get our own space station. This station is the hub for our fleet. We direct our ships to
space dock for repairs, upgrades, missions etc. No more just flying around blowing things up.We use our ships to protect our space stations, patrol sectors, and help planets in need. When something happens in space, we send whatever available ships we have to do the job.

Expand the explore portion of the game. When the lower level officers explores an unknown system, those eventually get mapped permanently. Each time someone explores it, it gets mapped as a percentage. So after a few days, weeks, whatever, the system is now mapped and an admiral can now go and mine or colonize it. Once a new system is fully mapped, it's first come first serve.

We don't get rid of the enemy contacts, we make them ore versatile. Now instead of just flying in circles, they slowly approach one of your bases, mining facilities, etc. We can set the system to email or txt us when they are within 50Km or something. Then we know we have to log on and protect our bases. If we dont log on in time, our base could be captured or destroyed. Then we send in our available fleet ships to take it back, etc.

Expand the first contact missions so we can negotiate the rights to mine on their planet. Lets slowly build
trust and bring them into the federation. If someone fails and offends a civilization, then they may join an
enemy organization.

Lets have the different factions vying for new planets and civilizations. Open it up so you can be a admiral for a different government like breen or klingon. Lets have the same goals for each. Gather resources, help the war effort, capture bases.

Let us build listening posts, and monitoring stations near enemy borders. If it says the place we are monitoring isn't defended, then we can try to capture it. Then we turn it into a production center for our government.

We would have to post enough patrols so our own stations doesn't get captured by the enemy. This all ties back into the resource gathering and ship building aspect. We should only command as many installations as we can protect.

This would keep the "fleet" admirals coming back daily. If someone doesnt want the responsibility of
commanding a fleet, then they can just keep doing whatever they are currently doing.

I cant speak for everyone, but a story arc like this i would like to see. Make it more planning and
strategic defense, and not just a shoot em up goal.

I have many more ideas, but im not sure if anyone cares so ill stop now. If any of the Dev's would like more info, feel free to contact me. I have an active imagination.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-14-2010, 11:59 PM
some good ideas guys. One thing I'd like to expand on is the fact that admirals order plebs around.

what would be nice would be some method for other players to approach you (as admiral) and request orders (perhaps with a toggle to say you're offering orders or not)- now this could be 100% automated, semi automated (you pick the mission types you're offering), or 100% manual - you talk to them and see what sort of mission they're after and assign one. (this could be tied into the future UGC functions they've been talking about as well as perhaps offering some generic missions).

Once a player has approached you once, they should be able to hail you for more missions (again this could be fully automated or otherwise). Players successfully completing a mission would provide you with the aforementioned administrative points which you could perhaps also spend on unlocking new mission types and/or mission buffs (that is, buffs players gain while running missions offered by you - thus tempting them to run more missions offered by you) - perhaps even ranking up the quality of the rewards earnt from you.

This could work kind of like rested XP too - with the non-interactive option allowing players to use you while you're offline

I think there's a hell of a lot that could be done down that path and might be a bit of fun. My 2c
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
02-28-2011, 08:59 AM
A lot of great ideas. When I heard a ST MMO was coming out I was excited and hoped it built upon all of the previous ST and non ST games. Sadly it turned out to be an expanded SFC3. I am gald to see that they are working on stuff and hope these or some other ideas to make this game better come out.
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