Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61 I like facts
05-14-2010, 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
Sorry but not even close to a victory there. You can't decide to ignore every other definition for a word that doesn't fit your arguement and call it a 'victory.' Is not. Its an opinion, and little else. You were countered at multiple points but chose to ignore them. That doesnt make it a slam dunk, sorry to say.

Until Cryptic say one way or the other on the matter, there are no victories. Only differing opinions.
A debate is one when one group of people prove their case or disprove their oppositions case In fact or theory. I will stand by the decisive victory.Thank you.

I will say again to help you understand I reviewed the definition in question that you posed and it was out of context with the definitions within the Cryptic documentation provided, I did not ignore them as you post, I refuted them point by point without any valid opposition (cause the meaning as defined is clear). A brief summary.
1. by definition (provided in text)
2. By omission (not documented in text, thing that are labeled exclusive are, anything labeled less than or not labeled exclusive are not)
3. A Point by point commentary describing how all posed definitions for unique were by type alone, NOT EXCLUSIVITY. ( type meaning of unique in this context is a specific uniform look or Type being The MU Type, and NOT unique to Champions offer.
4. By providing the DDE example feature list that helped further define unique was to type and not exclusivity.( which further showed that unique is that advertisement were by type and not exclusivity)



Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
You proved nothing I'm afraid, and I think you know better than to discuss moderation on the forums and restart the arguements that lead to such moderation.
Its sound like you are trying to start up the argument you accused me of trying to start? I offer the documented evidence in all of my posts, I with further add that I did spell it out in the simplest terms for you point by point in crayon, and put this to bed by saying once more good day sir.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
05-15-2010, 01:57 AM
I was looking at your previous thread regarding this issue and you posted the following:


Daeke
Online Community Team

Join Date: Apr 2009

Limited-Time Subscription Deals!
We're very excited to announce two special subscription packages available for purchase for a limited-time! Both of these offers are only going to be around until supplies last, so sign up while you still can. Below are the details for both the lifetime and 6-month subscription packages.

Lifetime subscriptions include:

* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set
* Exclusive Retro Future costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the game’s release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!

6-Month Discounted Subscriptions come with:

* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!


Have either of these caught your eye?



I respectfully disagree, all features with exception to the MU uniforms were active in game Champions rewards for lifetime subscribers the MU were bonus toward STO. They were not redeemable in Champions therefore they were a future out of game bonus towards STO. (CHECKMATE)


and this :

I copied and pasted it from the Champions site......"Unique" Is the operative word!!, NOT EXCLUSIVE!!!!

MY POINT EXACTLY!!! Thank you for your brilliant powers of observation, thus being a bonus and not an in game exclusive...

Checkmate.



Buuuut I looked here on the STO forums and found the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daeke
For a limited time only six-month and lifetime subscribers to Cryptic Studios' other MMO, Champions Online, will receive, among other exciting perks, guaranteed access to the Star Trek Online beta test!

"Beyond the deep discount on the subscription rates, we wanted to come up with added incentives and exclusives that, as gamers, we could get excited about," said Jack Emmert, Cryptic Studios' Chief Operating Officer. "With an early commitment to Champions Online, granting guaranteed early access to our next big game, Star Trek Online, seemed like a great way to engage Cryptic’s biggest fans in other projects at the studio.”

Lifetime subscribers will also receive an exclusive Mirror Universe costume set for Star Trek Online.

Here are the great features our loyal customers will receive.

Lifetime Subscription ($199.99 USD | $219.99 CAN | £119.99 GBP | €147.99 EUR)

* Guaranteed Star Trek Online Closed Beta Access
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers.
* Retro Future costume set.
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the game’s release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!



Six Month Discounted Subscription ($59.99 USD | $65.99 CAN | £35.99 GBP | €44.99 EUR)

* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Retro Future costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!



Don’t miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!


Don’t miss out on these great deals! You can purchase your subscriptions now!



Link to the news article.

Note the bit in red there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
05-15-2010, 03:56 AM
But then again there is the matter that the Captain's Table was also advertised as "exclusive", but will now be handed out as a veteran award.

Quote:
In-Game VIP Lounge
Spend time in an exclusive area inside the game. This social area is limited to Lifetime Subscribers only.
So yeah..... Exclusive and Unique really don't mean anything at all....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
05-15-2010, 04:09 AM
Oh good another mu thread why can't people just let it go
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
05-15-2010, 05:32 AM
The simple truth is that all non lifetime subscribers, will at a certain point, eclipse the monetary investment of all lifetime subscribers. While I am all for a title and maybe a small unique item to commemorate their investment, the fact considered, most lifetime subscribers rewards, which are based upon the monetary investment, should become available to the general, paying public.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimsonSpray
I was looking at your previous thread regarding this issue and you posted the following:


Daeke
Online Community Team

Join Date: Apr 2009

Limited-Time Subscription Deals!
We're very excited to announce two special subscription packages available for purchase for a limited-time! Both of these offers are only going to be around until supplies last, so sign up while you still can. Below are the details for both the lifetime and 6-month subscription packages.

Lifetime subscriptions include:

* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set
* Exclusive Retro Future costume set, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Unique Mirror Universe outfit for Star Trek Online, available at the game’s release
* Exclusive in-game Foxbat action figure, available only to lifetime subscribers
* Eight additional character slots!

6-Month Discounted Subscriptions come with:

* Saves $29.95 USD (33% off!) over regular monthly subscription!
* Exclusive Art Deco costume set
* Access to the Star Trek Online Closed Beta, beginning later this year!


Have either of these caught your eye?



I respectfully disagree, all features with exception to the MU uniforms were active in game Champions rewards for lifetime subscribers the MU were bonus toward STO. They were not redeemable in Champions therefore they were a future out of game bonus towards STO. (CHECKMATE)


and this :

I copied and pasted it from the Champions site......"Unique" Is the operative word!!, NOT EXCLUSIVE!!!!

MY POINT EXACTLY!!! Thank you for your brilliant powers of observation, thus being a bonus and not an in game exclusive...

Checkmate.



Buuuut I looked here on the STO forums and found the following:




Note the bit in red there.
I am sorry none of the links you provided take me anywhere to see factual documentation of this as a fact, and my information was pulled in its entirety from the Champions Online post for this offer. I would further submit you should of checked the fine print on the offer or Cryptic changed their minds about exclusivity, because It does not reflect your position in black and white. That is the equivalent of hear say and would not be considered admissible, entertaining, but not admissible as evidence.

The Terms of service were only stated on the Champions site as the point of purchase site, any and all commentary that is not spelled out can be chalked up to a slip of the tongue at best, That never was confirmed in the end user purchasing agreement (meaning the Champions Life Time Feature page). So I would say if that was the case, It still did not make it in the final deal, as it may or may not of been commented upon. I will go on to say some of the visions/ commentary of what STO was to become upon their announcement never made it into the end user content/purchase agreement.

On a side note this is the strongest counter point I have heard thus far and I thank you for making it. Unfortunately all the other advertisements are consistent in the same( Meaning their visual attributes and type) way(STO DDE) and PROVE EXCLUSIVE ARE called just that, and Unique items are unique to type and not exclusivity.

I refer you to the four ways in previous posts we were able to prove that to be fact by the preponderance of evidence(or beyond a reasonable doubt) I do thank you for your point of view, but the overwhelming opposition of documented facts (end user purchase agreement on CO features page) would NOT sway the facts to your counter point even if the commentary were to be true. At that point it would be considered a loophole probably designed into the offer. Furthermore as someone pointed out that the Champions Life time offer was unexpectedly canceled (documented by Cryptic on the CO thread) that it would be both reasonable and prudent that the uniforms would likely be offered in a different way, I agree and will add that it is good business not withhold and Iconic piece of the Star Trek Universe such as the MU Uniforms. Once again I thank you for your counter point, and I bid you good day sir
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67 agreed
05-15-2010, 06:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kefra View Post
The simple truth is that all non lifetime subscribers, will at a certain point, eclipse the monetary investment of all lifetime subscribers. While I am all for a title and maybe a small unique item to commemorate their investment, the fact considered, most lifetime subscribers rewards, which are based upon the monetary investment, should become available to the general, paying public.
I agree, with this provided the subscriber has been with this title as long as Lifetime Subscription purchase ($299.) to begin receiving these as Veteran Unlocks Reward. The PreLaunch Lifetime Investors these things should be made available instantly, and for newer Lifetime Subscribers, Long term Subscribers and Mothly on a Veterans Reward system. This sounds very reasonable to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
05-15-2010, 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by picardalpha2clearance View Post
Its sound like you are trying to start up the argument you accused me of trying to start? I offer the documented evidence in all of my posts, I with further add that I did spell it out in the simplest terms for you point by point in crayon, and put this to bed by saying once more good day sir.
No what I'm saying is that the only way to disprove what you're claiming is to restart the arguements that caused the other thread to be locked. You should have stuck to the topic matter of this thread, but you couldn't resist trying to get the final word in for the locked thread.

Your opinions are still that: Opinions, no matter what you might think. Until Someone from Cryptic says otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kefra View Post
The simple truth is that all non lifetime subscribers, will at a certain point, eclipse the monetary investment of all lifetime subscribers. While I am all for a title and maybe a small unique item to commemorate their investment, the fact considered, most lifetime subscribers rewards, which are based upon the monetary investment, should become available to the general, paying public.
I don't disagree. Which is why I've been in favor of a 400-500 day vet reward for those who didn't get it directly via the Champions Lifetime offer. That is roughly the point the LT investment is covered. So that we knew back then the alternate method to get the uniform, there would be a reasonable chance we would have picked the same route we did.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
05-15-2010, 08:19 AM
This "debate" over the words "exclusive" and "unique" is just going to get this thread closed like the other one.

Can we please just drop it?

Cryptic can do anything they want with any of these promo items. If they want to release it, they can!

I started this thread just to say that, when that day comes, I will be a sad panda.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
05-15-2010, 08:43 AM
[quote=picardalpha2clearance;2671833]I am sorry none of the links you provided take me anywhere to see factual documentation of this as a fact, and my information was pulled in its entirety from the Champions Online post for this offer. I would further submit you should of checked the fine print on the offer or Cryptic changed their minds about exclusivity, because It does not reflect your position in black and white. That is the equivalent of hear say and would not be considered admissible, entertaining, but not admissible as evidence.

Here's the direct link to the thread :

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=24059
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