Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
05-07-2010, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by personae
Welcome to the forums. We always go too far. Like TNT, We Know Drama.
.....DOINK......doink.......
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
05-07-2010, 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
While I dont disagree with what your saying, the way you choose to say it has ironically opened yourself up for the same thing.
At this point? Meh.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
05-07-2010, 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Why are you going to all the effort to insist that it's going to be an inferior gameplay choice?
Because your complaint is based on the faulty premise that this thing is going to be good. And it isn't.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
05-07-2010, 08:25 AM
And if it is good, we can always nerf it
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
05-07-2010, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
Well... I'm really hard-pressed to believe that being vocal is a bad thing unless you're someone like ...
But I think this post was designed because there are someone's like ...

(I don't want to name names, as that's not a good thing to do. But, I am trying to point out that Atomic made this post as a reaction to exactly what you just mentioned. The "Someones Like" if you will).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
05-07-2010, 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
But I think this post was designed because there are someone's like ...

(I don't want to name names, as that's not a good thing to do. But, I am trying to point out that Atomic made this post as a reaction to exactly what you just mentioned. The "Someones Like" if you will).
BINGO!


Exactly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
05-07-2010, 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.

Here's a link to the official Atari Memo on acquiring Cryptic.

Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.

You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.

There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.

Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.

They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.

This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.

I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.

That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
I'm quoting in full your response for truth. Firstly, THANK you for digging up that article. I would have sworn that there was another such location such as their fiscal statement that confirmed that the targets had to be met within a given amount of time, but I am not definitely sure.

Regardless, your assessment was outstanding given the consideration and factors circumstances you put forth. Very well done. You are right, they bit off far more than they could chew. Side note, I just looked at my battery life, and I still have 5 hours left... GREAT computer woot. Anyway, continuing...

The better thing for *us* would have been for Cryptic to realize that this would be far too much for them to handle. But let's be honest... even if I ran a small studio, and I somehow winding up getting the rights to the game, there is no WAY I would want to give it up selflessly even if I knew someone else could make it better.

I think it might be a good idea for the lot of us who are dissatisfied with this game to be "okay" with taking a break. Stepping away and coming back when things are more up to par. I say this specifically relating to disgruntled lifetime subscribers. Unfortunately... it may be the case, that Cryptic at the very least needs the current base of monthly subscribers to sustain themselves. What with settling at 100k subscribers with the last official announcement, and with a continued perceivable loss of game population, I'd say that it might be reasonable to assume that we have already sunk below their "minimum target population".

This boils down to people paying the "bare minimum" to sustain this game. That means no surplus for a growing development team and extra grand features on the horizon. People will have to make a decision. They need to decide whether they are going to stick it out and hope that Cryptic delivers on their word.... or simply take their business elsewhere and not look back.

The other thing is...people (including myself) need to realize this magical metamorphosis isn't going to happen over night. In fact, it may take a LONG time, provided that the project survives this long.

This all could be simple a series of unfortunate events. One thing that I do want to specifically counter, or at least bring up for consideration Mirror-Master is that you do not necessarily see them as evil money grabbing schemers. To be honest, I don't know what to think.

Given their propensity to fumble in fiascos and cook up debacles seemingly left and right, I wonder at their business management and marketing side. Are people so easily worked up because of the overall disappointment with the game (this can't be so, because I'm seeing more and more "fanboys" turn into skeptics. they STARted loving Cryptic and STO), or it because they really lack wisdom in their planning and communications? I've stated before, they need to either hire someone, or fire someone to fix this problem (although, the team seems pretty thin at the moment anyway)

And with regards specifically with people's perception of them...well... the C-Store is starting to become a point of contention for me. And as many people have echoed... it seems that QUITE a lot of what is getting designed and developed ends up as a locked away goodie.

All in all, I wish things were better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
05-07-2010, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
Because your complaint is based on the faulty premise that this thing is going to be good. And it isn't.
That's not what my complaint is based on, and your speculation that it will be inferior is just as speculative as saying that it will be balanced or that it will uberpwn everything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
05-07-2010, 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
That's not what my complaint is based on, and your speculation that it will be inferior is just as speculative as saying that it will be balanced or that it will uberpwn everything.
My speculation is based on in game mechanics. And on in-game examples of other items of that nature.

Yours is based on what the thing did in a show.

Here's a great example. The Red Matter device. It was so powerful in the Abrams film it helped destroy Vulcan.

In this game?

Yeah ... it falls a tad short of that.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
05-07-2010, 09:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
DISCLAIMER: This is not a flame bait thread. So if possible please limit responses to a constructive analysis of the post and or information/opinions of all posters.


I got to looking back at Dstahl's posts from today and yesterday in this section and I got the feeling that he was conveying a "vibe" if you will. One akin to a candy sweet tart. While some of his posts had a hint of comedic intent, the almost felt like they were flavored with a tad of sarcastic angst.

So, that got me to thinking that possibly with all this outpouring of anger and frustration that we have had over the RAF we might have gone a bit too far. Now, I recognize that some people don't care if we (as a community) have gone too far in our push back. Those folks aren't going to take this thread seriously anyway, I doubt.


Allow me to explain. Some of us have been here since the beginning. Yadda Yadda Yadda old timers, that sort of thing. In that time we have had Salegate. Lifergate, etc. Honestly, too many gates for me to remember them all. Some I cared about and some I didn't. Now, we have referralgate. In each case, there has been two parties, us and Cryptic/Atari. (Although I blame salegate on Atari not Cryptic). So in effect, we have created or they have created, depending on your point of view, a us verses them mentality so to speak.

I can't think of any manner is which that mentality is a good thing. I would tend to think it is actually a bad thing. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying don't tell Cryptic how you feel about a certain action or elements of gameplay etc. I am also not suggesting that we flower them with roses and hugs either. All I am saying is that after Dstahl told us he went to the CEO about this RAF program and that it wasn't going to change. Maybe, just maybe we should have accepted that we were not going to succeed in our desire to have it changed.

Personally, I don't think laying the blame on anyone is helpful in this case, as to be honest the only people who will really suffer is us the community.

Just wanted to share these thoughts with you.
I think you are entirely correct. I know that in the DP kerfluffle I didn't exactly make the best showing, and I've tried to pull back from the dramatic posts that rail at the reps. ("How's My Posting? 1-800-NOT-FUNNY.") I admit I hadn't thought that the coders and other folks there would be affected, but it does stand to reason.

To be honest, normally I would say that I couldn't care less what the people whose names end in 'C*O' think; I'm too populist that way. ^_^ But shyte rolls downhill, which means that if they get torqued from uprisings in the forums, then the middle guys get it from both ends.

Now, I am not saying we should not speak up when we see something we don't like. We always have that right as paying customers. But there are ways to express dissatisfaction without it trying to turn it into the virtual equivalent of the October Revolution. This might be something we want to work on.
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