Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 121
05-07-2010, 10:55 AM
As a lifer this forum is my only recourse to showing my displeasure (or pleasure) with the game and cryptic. Right now imvery displeased.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 122
05-07-2010, 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.

Here's a link to the official Atari Memo on acquiring Cryptic.

Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.

You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.

There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.

Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.

They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.

This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.

I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.

That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
Cryptic's plan right from the get go (since their return on the scene) is to keep pumping out whatever crappola they can in a very specific time frame, get whatever revenue they can from the box sales and lifetimes to pay for development, and then whatever is left over (if any) and the monthly subs they end up with is the gravy.

That's how they sold Cryptic.

That's what Atari is expecting out of them for the next few years. A stable of mmos cranked out fast and on the cheap to provide a pool of subscribers. Essentially subscriber volume spread out over multiple games as opposed to one.

That was what they were flogging in the press and to any big company that would let their slimy tails in the door, and that's exactly what a financially troubled company bought. All Atari did was add a clause in there to motivate Cryptic to stick to the plan that Cryptic sold them. The reason the release date for STO got locked in stone in the late summer/fall of 2009 had to do with the very poor performance of CO, and so STO HAD to be released early 2010 for Cryptic to have any chance at the bonus.

CBS doesn't even really come into the picture. All they wanted to see was progress, and the company to have enough resources to continue to pay for the licensing when renewal time rolls around. They don't have any real stake in whether STO does well or not, beyond maybe a set slice of profits if it does well, but that's just icing on the cake for them if it happens. It's not like a company like CBS was thinking the performance of STO would effect the ST IP in any way, except to maybe increase it's profile a bit more with a specific demographic. CBS makes money off the movies and the license (the same as it does for any other genre of game).

Cryptic doesn't give a rat's behind about their customers beyond doing the bare minimum it took to first suck them in to buying, and then keep a portion of them subscribing. If that's "player driven content" then every single mmo that's been released has done it. They didn't "plan" on "putting out a bare skeleton and then developing it with player input" at all. That whole schpeel came out of nowhere near the end of open beta when they were getting hammered by people seeing just how little was there and the word started getting around faster than they anticipated. It's just more snakeoiling.

It's still not their plan either. Ya'll will get what they already long ago decided to give IF they got in trouble (which STO did otherwise they'd have moved more over to the next project as soon as STO was released), and it's simple for them to pretend it's "player driven" (to keep the facade) because the game is so devoid of content and features they can easily find a group that's asking for what they're adding, then point to them and say "see, player driven!". They can also rely on the general forum dweller's ego to just suck that sh..stuff up too.

The story about the Klingon faction and how "rioting on the forums" got them to start adding PvE content I read earlier in the thread? Ya, horsepucky. They didn't make any movement on adding PvE content, and distancing themselves from the "PvP faction" thing, until it became very clear that they had severely underestimated just how many were planning on playing Klingon but were turned off by their decision, and when they were losing pre-orders over it. We were "fighting" to save the faction (not rioting) for over two months after the word leaked out about the decision to make it PvP oriented, and there was nothing but silence from Cryptic on the matter. Well except for one of their producers ridiculing us in IRC, and implanting keywords into the sheep's brains that then came on the forums to use those words in their attacks on us.

Then people that were in CB and later OB started making it clear they were packing it in when it came to STO by canceling their pre-orders and asking for LTS refunds, and entire fleets were folding or moving on. It wasn't till then we heard anything about adding PvE content, and even then all we got was a smoke and mirrors show about what it would be and when it would be there. They made sure to intimate that it was coming in this wonderful "45 day patch" though. So again, enough to have suckers (ya, I'm one of them) buy the game and subscribe for at least a month.

They just keep playing the fiddle too, and some just keep dancing to their tune.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 123
05-07-2010, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
And as I've stated elsewhere - the program is really intended for players who are enjoying the game and having fun and want to share their love of the game with their friends. If that isn't you, then the program really isn't designed for you. I don't think it does anyone any good (including the community) to bring people into the game who really don't want to play it in the first place - or to purchase their own subs just to get a reward - it doesn't help the game to do that. What helps the game is finding more people who do enjoy and want to play the game. I know its hard to gather from reading these boards sometimes, but there are quite a few people who do enjoy and love this game.
And what about those of us who have already tried bringing friends and associates into this game, only for them to become fustrated and quit due to lack of content and other issues? Even if we could re-recruit these people, they can't count towards your referral system, and we reamain screwed. Even more so for any friends that've actually stayed with the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
If that's not you - then I can only assume you're here because you want to make the game better - and I can tell you that the team is working breakneck to get updates into the game so that there is always a flow of new features and content that you've been asking for. If you are here just to cause trouble, then don't be surprised if the mods bounce... because it really just isn't helping.
Continuing to witthold canon content from your playerbase behind walls of exclusivity does not and will never make this game better. And yet, we continue to support this game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Whether or not the community went too far is something you'll have to look at personally. From this perspective your concerns were heard, communicated, and responded to.
This is yet another post of yours responding to this issue that seems to lean towards dismissing your player's concerns and complaints about this and similar issues as invalid, inconvenient, or just mindless 'rioting'. This trend continues to disturb and insult me, sir.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Is the Galaxy X only going to be available via referral? Probably because that is what it was designed for - but who knows... things can always change.
It's been a week since this notion became public, and the vocal complaints and disapproval continue. And all we've gotten in response is a handful of posts like this, implying that you may or may not possibly consider a theoretical change at some point in the future. This hedging and dodging does not help matters at all.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 124
05-07-2010, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by silk121
As a lifer this forum is my only recourse to showing my displeasure (or pleasure) with the game and cryptic. Right now imvery displeased.
You arent the only one...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 125
05-07-2010, 11:18 AM
People have been QQing, hard, over RAF. Seriously, its not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 126
05-07-2010, 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post

1) We realize it isn't a cake-walk to recruit 5 friends, which is why the reward was asked to be cool.

2) If that's not you - then I can only assume you're here because you want to make the game better - and I can tell you that the team is working breakneck to get updates into the game so that there is always a flow of new features and content that you've been asking for. If you are here just to cause trouble, then don't be surprised if the mods bounce... because it really just isn't helping.
1) It could have been cool, but something else. How logical is it to use something that would rile the community so much, and such a prized ship class that many people asked to be included in the game well before launch? If it's supposed to be cool, I understand. Makes sense, you want to motivate people. But how ideal is it when this same super cool item essentially causes people to also be turned off to you guys by it being made exclusive. Talk about Star Trek dreams... you just essentially alienated part of your community. Again... it could have been something COOL... but something ELSE cool, not Galaxy X. Was this the most ideal decision Dan?

2) Yes, I want to make the game better, and I believe that you guys are busting your (trying to think of something far from ever being considered vulgar to avoid giving Phoxe a reason to..)... baskets of vegetables... to get things out fast. You guys really have no choice with what the end result has been. But at the same time, your community manager Phoxe is outrageously abusing his authority. Unfortunately, I can't talk about specifics out of respect for your forum rules. Your community email address only spits back canned responses, so there is no human touch involved with the process. Sure, there are definite flamers, but even in my critical positions I have aspired to be fair, honest, respectful, AND constructive. Hypothetically speaking Dan, wouldn't you be pretty disappointed if you were cited as being "vulgar" for using a very commonly used word... and at the same time, you were quoting Craig Zinc verbatim? I could give other examples, but I am pretty sure the company in question would loose much credibility if they start STRAINING to find reasons to take action against you. You're not the only one to make mention of this, but its disappointing more so because it seems that you are not even fully aware of whats going on. When someone is contributing to the problem, then there is a bigger problem. I am not speaking about moderation (because that is against the rules), but I am clearly stating that one of your mods is abusing their position grossly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 127
05-07-2010, 11:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
1) It could have been cool, but something else.
If that something else were "cool" the same thing would have happened. Maybe from different posters, since that something else would have been something other posters wanted. But the reaction would have been the same.

The only way this would not have been the reaction was if the reward was not something cool.

And then the threads would have been complaint threads about how the reward sucks, no one will do it because the reward sucks and that devs are wasting time on things that suck. It's a catch-22.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 128
05-07-2010, 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
If that something else were "cool" the same thing would have happened. Maybe from different posters, since that something else would have been something other posters wanted. But the reaction would have been the same.
I think it should have been a Q mini-pet that appears at random and follows you around for a while making snarky comments.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 129
05-07-2010, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
If that something else were "cool" the same thing would have happened. Maybe from different posters, since that something else would have been something other posters wanted. But the reaction would have been the same.

The only way this would not have been the reaction was if the reward was not something cool.

And then the threads would have been complaint threads about how the reward sucks, no one will do it because the reward sucks and that devs are wasting time on things that suck. It's a catch-22.
What you say is POSSIBLE for sure, I will definitely grant you that.

But what adds insult to injury in this case, is that the Galaxy X was plainly an item that people repeatedly asked for before the launch of the game, closed beta, etc. And now to pour a bit of salt on the wound... it isn't just any ship... its Canon.

We have so few canon ships to choose from as it is, whereas they could make a seemingly endless supply of cryptic star trekesque ships.

Making a canon ship
which many people wanted
exclusive
makes me a sad vegetable. (and others apparently).

It would have been probably far less pronounced if the offered item had a functional clickie ability, but was an originally built in house item. Or maybe a new ship. Or a VARIANT of the Galaxy X, hah. But, in my opinion, they choose the greater of two evils... withholding a coveted canon ship and choosing to keep it out of reach for many people.

I've said this before... but if the Galaxy X as a T5 would have been made available in game... it is something big enough to have actually made me log in to the game. It would have been a "WOW... thats cool and GREAT Cryptic". I and many others would have been excited about it. Instead... well... look what affect their decision had.

So in essence, I'm only talking about what would have been most ideal in this situation. Know what I mean? And did you like my semi-haiku (i know its not even close)?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 130
05-07-2010, 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
And then the threads would have been complaint threads about how the reward sucks, no one will do it because the reward sucks and that devs are wasting time on things that suck. It's a catch-22.
Well, I haven't seen any whole threads, but I've definitely seen posts saying the Galaxy-X is a crap reward anyway. Mostly from people who would prefer some manner of escort, science ship, or Klingon vessel. It's amusing.
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