Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 161
05-07-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
While I can't speak to the Calendar update - I posted in the Engineering Report yesterday that things are for the most part still on track (ie.. some changes) but for the most part features are on track. I'll have a full update later today.

To the OP - from my perspective it was ok to voice opinion over the referral program - and it was discussed several times in executive meetings and it was felt that the reward was worthy of the challenging task. We realize it isn't a cake-walk to recruit 5 friends, which is why the reward was asked to be cool.

And as I've stated elsewhere - the program is really intended for players who are enjoying the game and having fun and want to share their love of the game with their friends. If that isn't you, then the program really isn't designed for you. I don't think it does anyone any good (including the community) to bring people into the game who really don't want to play it in the first place - or to purchase their own subs just to get a reward - it doesn't help the game to do that. What helps the game is finding more people who do enjoy and want to play the game. I know its hard to gather from reading these boards sometimes, but there are quite a few people who do enjoy and love this game.

If that's not you - then I can only assume you're here because you want to make the game better - and I can tell you that the team is working breakneck to get updates into the game so that there is always a flow of new features and content that you've been asking for. If you are here just to cause trouble, then don't be surprised if the mods bounce... because it really just isn't helping.

Whether or not the community went too far is something you'll have to look at personally. From this perspective your concerns were heard, communicated, and responded to.

Is the Galaxy X only going to be available via referral? Probably because that is what it was designed for - but who knows... things can always change.
Thank you for this informative outreach.

Can we get an official message posting on Cryptic's overall stance on its intentions with "Exclusive" items as they stand now? (including examples) I know you ended this with "things can always change" but I also know what that means (it means never say never, and nothing more). Sadly, most forum communities latch onto those words... careful how they are used. At any rate, I for one would like to understand the company's limits on what will be changed to non- and semi-exclusive items down the road, the way TCT has (not judging, just asking).

I think it would go a long way to settling these riots before they rule 2 days of the boards time if there are clear-cut, definitive, gold-name post(s) on exactly how and what Cryptic defines these rewards. So long as that post sticks to what the current stance is, and does not try to include "possibilities" of future changes to this. If it too ends with " things can always change," the riots will double in length. Of course they can change, just don't cover that bit. Cover the current policy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 162
05-07-2010, 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootCadillac
you have just killed this community.
If you think that we are going to chase around many different, dead, forums to continue conversations you are mistaken. I have no doubt that's exactly what you want.
I'm sorry but your argument is not logical. I understand you have strong feelings about STO and the moderators in general, but it is more logical to assume they did the restructuing so their respective departments can see what people are complaining about.

I don't think an additional click or two on the mouse can be classified as "chasing".... unless you troll the forums and you want an easier way to do so But ofc you don't do that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 163
05-07-2010, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post

Cryptic doesn't give a rat's behind about their customers beyond doing the bare minimum it took to first suck them in to buying, and then keep a portion of them subscribing. If that's "player driven content" then every single mmo that's been released has done it. They didn't "plan" on "putting out a bare skeleton and then developing it with player input" at all. That whole schpeel came out of nowhere near the end of open beta when they were getting hammered by people seeing just how little was there and the word started getting around faster than they anticipated. It's just more snakeoiling.

It's still not their plan either. Ya'll will get what they already long ago decided to give IF they got in trouble (which STO did otherwise they'd have moved more over to the next project as soon as STO was released), and it's simple for them to pretend it's "player driven" (to keep the facade) because the game is so devoid of content and features they can easily find a group that's asking for what they're adding, then point to them and say "see, player driven!". They can also rely on the general forum dweller's ego to just suck that sh..stuff up too.
You could be right about CBS and about Atari's plan to crank out a bunch of MMO's. I know for sure that Atari acquired Cryptic for their ability to do it quick and on the cheap.

What I disagree with is the notion that Cryptic has done nothing but scheme and plot to string us along and steal our money. It's more likely that Cryptic has busted their assess to make a product that they can be proud of. One that could make money as quickly as possible for Atari yes (you're right about that part) and then sustain/grow their income by adding on more features over time. Evil practices from the depths of hell? Nah... it's just capitalism at work (oh wait maybe that is from hell! ).

Yes, I agree they often try to sell features and content they had previously planned but I don't believe they are scheming to disguise all of these as player driven features. We've seen them propose things, trying to sell it despite our negative feedback, then change plans to meet demand (or riots lol). If that's all a facade then I guess I'm gullible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post

The story about the Klingon faction and how "rioting on the forums" got them to start adding PvE content I read earlier in the thread? Ya, horsepucky. They didn't make any movement on adding PvE content, and distancing themselves from the "PvP faction" thing, until it became very clear that they had severely underestimated just how many were planning on playing Klingon but were turned off by their decision, and when they were losing pre-orders over it. We were "fighting" to save the faction (not rioting) for over two months after the word leaked out about the decision to make it PvP oriented, and there was nothing but silence from Cryptic on the matter. Well except for one of their producers ridiculing us in IRC, and implanting keywords into the sheep's brains that then came on the forums to use those words in their attacks on us.

Then people that were in CB and later OB started making it clear they were packing it in when it came to STO by canceling their pre-orders and asking for LTS refunds, and entire fleets were folding or moving on. It wasn't till then we heard anything about adding PvE content, and even then all we got was a smoke and mirrors show about what it would be and when it would be there. They made sure to intimate that it was coming in this wonderful "45 day patch" though. So again, enough to have suckers (ya, I'm one of them) buy the game and subscribe for at least a month.

They just keep playing the fiddle too, and some just keep dancing to their tune.
I try to put myself in other people's shoes and understand where they are coming from. That being said I still appreciate you going to bat for Klingon PvE during closed beta. It's sad how it turned out but at least all the riots over it resulted in (yet to be seen) change.

And yea, they tried very hard to sell their PvP only vision of Klingons because they didn't have the time or resources to create PvE for them. Klingon PvE was never planned... probably the only reason why Klingons were in at launch period was because Jack Emmert wanted it that way. "Might as well not have it if it's not in at launch" or something to that effect from one of his interviews.

Plenty here have just painted you as a frothy mouthed troll but I understand your anger given the disparity we've seen from the beginning and all the Klingon fleets that have vanished because of that.

I still think this is another example of how the overwhelming response to STO was totally underestimated. We're both speculating but it may be as you say... that they only planned for STO to be part of a portfolio of small, quick crank MMO's.

And if that's true then they now see how it could have been a HUGE success on all fronts if they had taken the time and committed the resources to make a grand full featured product for both factions at launch. From where I sit, they might still be able to pull it off if they can keep the subs they have and get more by adding compelling features.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 164
05-07-2010, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat84 View Post
My problem with the Galaxy-X reward isn't that they are giving out a ship skin for people who either go buy 5 boxes of the game and pay for 5 subscriptions for one month, or somehow convince 5 others to do so. It's the fact that they are deliberately making doing this more desirable by making it also THE MOST POWERFUL SHIP IN THE GAME because it has an extra weapon, and the ability to cloak, neither of which other Federation T5 ships can or will do at the time of it's release.

Oh, they say we will have other ships with similar abilities "in the future". Which is not when the first superfanbois who are willing to spend $200 to become an alpha class start showing up in these things.

That is what makes this deal completely unethical and a total betrayal of the customer.
Yep, it also goes against the possibility of it ending up in the C-Store as items there are intended to be cosmetic or have little impact on the game.

But I do admit mixed feelings here. This RAF offer smells of either desperation or a preemptive strike against loosing subs. I still want STO to succeed no matter how I feel about marketing offers. Part of me hopes this works out well for Cryptic but marketing really needs to reevaluate their practices. Most of what they are doing is either divisive or unfair or both to the community.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 165
05-07-2010, 02:45 PM
Honestly, can you imagine what it must be like for the Dev's? No matter what they do, some people get mad and freak out with serious rage. I could never be in the game design industry, I dont have thick enough skin.

To the guy who came up with the idea of breeding tribbles = I love you

To the guy who thought hitting the spacebar everytime you wanted to fire your ships weapons was a good idea = I hate you.

To the guy who fixed the moronic spacebar issue above = I love you

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 166
05-07-2010, 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonsin View Post
Honestly, can you imagine what it must be like for the Dev's? No matter what they do, some people get mad and freak out with serious rage. I could never be in the game design industry, I dont have thick enough skin.

Again...who cares what the devs think about anything? All of Cryptic's wounds are self-inflicted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 167
05-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonsin View Post
Honestly, can you imagine what it must be like for the Dev's? No matter what they do, some people get mad and freak out with serious rage. I could never be in the game design industry, I dont have thick enough skin.
I've been trying to convince what few friends I have in that particular industry to give serious consideration to using these forum issues as a resource. Let the community rage that constantly turns in on itself, be part of the game's experience.

I've even given a few very detailed ideas on how to achieve this.

It wouldn't fit this game or this IP. But I think the potential is there and it could be a huge step forward in the evolution of these games. Sometimes it's easier to swim with the current instead of trying to swim against it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 168
05-07-2010, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonsin View Post
Honestly, can you imagine what it must be like for the Dev's? No matter what they do, some people get mad and freak out with serious rage. I could never be in the game design industry, I dont have thick enough skin.
What saddens me is that the developers are actually pretty awesome, they all seem to know what they are doing and do it well, the issue is implemetation of the ideas. Afterall, if a dev is told to fix Memory Alpha's usability but then that UI fix is advertised as a memory alpha overhaul, its not actualy the dev that fixed the UI that did a crappy job, but rather the people that decided to mislabel what had been done. Each componant of the game requires multiple people working together to create, the issue is not the quality of the componants made, but 'how' they are put together, and that lies on the games management team, since they are the ones that can see the bigger picture.

I'm seriously impressed with the hard work the devs put into the game and what they can come up with, what I'm not impressed with is how it feels that the game is missing so so much, it really needed an extra 6 months or so of development before been released, I mean how many MMO's launch without the death penalty been added? There's even content like the accolades which were in the game during beta but were removed before the game went live, the game actually launched with less content activated than it had during the beta...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 169
05-07-2010, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueenVoodoo View Post
I can't say it's backfired on them, I don't think anybody knows that but them (i.e., Cryptic). However, I agree completely with your comment of, " if they made it available in game... it is actually something that could have made me LOG IN TO THE GAME.," and at its heart, this is the problem IMHO with the RAF program.

Sure, they'll get more subscribers, but will those subscribers stay past the 30 days? If I want more of my friends to join I want them to stick around and play with me more than I want a snazzy new ship. Nearly all my friends are gamers, they know about STO already and the ones who haven't already signed up have refused to sign-up because in their opinion the game needs more polish, more content, and more end-game. The new trailers/teasers/Dev Videos coming out from Bioware, CCP, NetDevil, and Reakktor Media for their games hasn't helped "sell" this game to them either. I'd be shocked if other people haven't heard the same from some of their friends, but I digress...

The time and resources (again IMHO) should have been put toward in-game content, not special content for an RAF program at this point in the game's life. Like I said in other posts, I would have offered free C-Store points, free game time, and in-game titles, then I would have added the snazzier rewards later when the in-game content was in a better place.

To make a long story short, I won't even consider promoting this game, no matter what the reward, until well after Season 2 perhaps even Season 3.
I agree with you. These are points that I made clearly in the post I quote below to mirror-master, and also in this new thread (because the old one was closed) A more "civil" discussion on the RAF program which essentially brings up the same points as the larger thread, but is more concise and has a decidedly different purpose.

Cryptic and/or Atari's management has decided against the majority here who took the time to respond on the forums.

Quote:
But I do admit mixed feelings here. This RAF offer smells of either desperation or a preemptive strike against loosing subs. I still want STO to succeed no matter how I feel about marketing offers. Part of me hopes this works out well for Cryptic but marketing really needs to reevaluate their practices. Most of what they are doing is either divisive or unfair or both to the community.
STO and the downward spiral

[COLOR="rgb(0, 255, 255)"]Despite the title... trust me, its not a doom thread.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 170
05-07-2010, 11:40 PM
Well, you can look at things a couple of different ways right now.

The housecleaning the forums got certainly worked.

And the increase in "I'm New, Have a Question" threads in the forums shows the free weekend is garnering some activity.

And there are quite a few threads now showing people are trying this RAF program.

I'm not so sure the case can be made that it's desperation. That the game is on its last gasp. That everything is fail.

I think this marketing gimmick, as heavy handed as it is, still works as a marketing gimmick. I know that probably still infuriates folks who would rather just buy the Galaxy X in the C-Store.

But ... that's a moot point now with the referrals already trickling in.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:49 AM.