Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
05-07-2010, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by squidheadjax View Post
We already know the cannon on the Galaxy-X is going to be something distinct from the standard cannon weapons.

You're speculating as much as I am, if not more. All we know is it's going to be something different, and trivial assurances taht could be made to the contrary haven't been.
I might be speculating about some things. But I am sure of others.

A phaser lance, a phaser cannon, whatever it is ... will have a limited firing arc. Because those things do in gameplay mechanics. You see it with the weapons. But you also see it with the firing arc on things like science powers. The firing arc on Tyken's Rift, for instance. Or Viral Matrix.

Short of being the mythical "I Win Button" that we all fear, it's not going to mesh well with a cruiser. Because it's firing arc is too restrictive. Because of how the mechanics of the game work.

The only way they can make it work is if they give it a Turret's firing arc. But then ... it's a turret. Which means it's damage is ... stinky.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
05-07-2010, 01:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.LoveMonkey
An us vs. them mentality is almost never a good idea. Rushed mmos that instantly lose their subscriber bases are, amazingly, less productive than ones that keep their sub bases. No mmo ever has gone into production witth the mindset of "We'll get a bunch of money on the box sales to cover our losses and then hope that we keep enough subs to keep the servers up".

The developers want this game to be as good as we do. You think they don't play games? There are a few people there who I know love Mass Effect 2, they've played WoW and other AAA MMOs. If anything it should be us and the developers against Atari. But then it might not even be their fault because they're doing really badly right now and they need every last bit of cash they can get, Atari made some bad choices and now STO is paying for them.
I call BS. Sorry, but I have to.

I think that "We'll rush the game out, deceive people and be extremely secretive all through the development cycle, limit the amount of people that will participate in the betas so the word doesn't spread too fast about just how little is there, get a bunch of money on the box sales and life time subscriptions to cover our development costs, and then try and keep enough subs to make a profit" is what both Cryptic and Atari were thinking all along.

I think the only reason we're seeing any new content at all after release is because of the severe subscription drop off that happened almost immediately once people saw what a shoddy rushed out job they'd done, that they're in danger of not making the revenue quota that gets them their 20 million plus bonus, and they're scrambling to retain the few monthly subscribers they have left and maybe get some back.

I've become convinced that both Cryptic and Atari are equally to blame for this mess that is STO. Cryptic is actually probably more to blame. They were touting this rushed development cycle long before Atari was in the picture.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
05-07-2010, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I might be speculating about some things. But I am sure of others.

A phaser lance, a phaser cannon, whatever it is ... will have a limited firing arc. Because those things do in gameplay mechanics. You see it with the weapons. But you also see it with the firing arc on things like science powers. The firing arc on Tyken's Rift, for instance. Or Viral Matrix.

Short of being the mythical "I Win Button" that we all fear, it's not going to mesh well with a cruiser. Because it's firing arc is too restrictive. Because of how the mechanics of the game work.

The only way they can make it work is if they give it a Turret's firing arc. But then ... it's a turret. Which means it's damage is ... stinky.
Why are you going to all the effort to insist that it's going to be an inferior gameplay choice? It shouldn't be. It should be a balanced and useful gameplay choice that is available through playing the game if it exists at all. It's the same reason the drop turret from Steam and the damage-to-EPS converter from D2d anger me - these are game mechanics that could enrich and diversify the gameplay experience (and maybe even retain subscriptions by giving people more options to mess with trying) but they're relegated to silly minor gimmicks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
05-07-2010, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagon View Post
I call BS. Sorry, but I have to.

I think that "We'll rush the game out, deceive people and be extremely secretive all through the development cycle, limit the amount of people that will participate in the betas so the word doesn't spread too fast about just how little is there, get a bunch of money on the box sales and life time subscriptions to cover our development costs, and then try and keep enough subs to make a profit" is what both Cryptic and Atari were thinking all along.

I think the only reason we're seeing any new content at all after release is because of the severe subscription drop off that happened almost immediately once people saw what a shoddy rushed out job they'd done, that they're in danger of not making the revenue quota that gets them their 20 million plus bonus, and they're scrambling to retain the few monthly subscribers they have left and maybe get some back.

I've become convinced that both Cryptic and Atari are equally to blame for this mess that is STO. Cryptic is actually probably more to blame. They were touting this rushed development cycle long before Atari was in the picture.
Read the following carefully:

Unfortunately this is all speculation, but there is the possibility that you may be right. From what I understand, once Cryptic received the rights to the IP, it was a time that wasn't so fabulous for them. Marvel (or DC) comics had pulled out from the super heroes project and they were likely hurting for money at the time.

Hence, the hunt for investors, publishers, and generally any avenue which would help keep them afloat. If you've read their branding... Cryptic has tried to market themselves as "MMO veterans, with a proven technology to cut down on resource cost and development time, in order to capitalize on a streamlined MMO development philosophy and process". That isn't a direct quote. They wanted to sell themselves as a company that can create MMO's quickly and with far less reduced cost than is typical.

In comes Atari... known for fledgling finances/deficets in their fiscal reports. They see Cryptic as a cost efficient way to enter the lucrative MMO market. UNFORTUNATELY, there is a "contractual agreement" in place for the Star Trek IP, either imposed by CBS or Atari... no one is clear on this point. I would venture to say that it isn't too far from the truth to contend that it was Atari who imposed the contractual agreement, for most of us are aware of the purported $20million bonus that Cryptic would get if they completed STO within the first quarter of 2010 (or something like that, details hazy, forgive me), and to reach certain undisclosed sales goals.

The scenario which I feel is likely... is that Atari sets certain sales and profit goals for Cryptic. But it is up to Cryptic to implement actionables which reach these goals. It is Atari's fault for trying to bleed STO to death for the sake of profit, while it is Cryptic's fault for damaging STO and its community by going about it in all the wrong ways.

Bottomline, poor STO was stuck between a rock and a hard place "from day one" LOL. Sorry, I normally don't do that, but consider it an inside joke ;-) If I'm wrong, by all means correct me fellow forum goers, or Cryptic staff.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
05-07-2010, 02:32 AM
Mirror unis for all :O
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
05-07-2010, 02:44 AM
I think people who don't care about STO don't bother coming to the forums to complain.
So Cryptic should just think of all the complaints as tough love.

We love you Cryptic, but we're not afraid to smack you a couple of times if you get outta line!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
05-07-2010, 02:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post

*snip for room.[/b]
You're right and wrong at sort of the same time. Smaller companies like Cryptic and Netdevil are moving to the two year development time frame due to the fact that there is little investment capital being invested in longer development times. Take TOR for example, it has already cost EA a great deal of money to invest in Bioware's TOR. So much so, they have canceled some projects in order to devote more money to TOR. In return the minimum to break even for EA and Bioware is a million subs.

So what Cryptic has done, and after talking to some of the devs and others I am almost certain of this. Is to take a skeleton frame work of a MMO get it out the door and then use input from the community to flesh it out. Netdevil is using the same process, albeit a little different in Jumpscape I believe. At least according to the information from the 2009 Game Developers Conference.


Now add in Atari, who is infamous for making bad marketing decisions (Ghostbusters PC) and the fact that Atari is hurting for cash and you see the origins of the situation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
05-07-2010, 02:59 AM
Problem is: Normally only people who want to vent, rant, or guys in their break at work visit the forum. They let go of their anger, and toss around some unfriendly words and harsh critic , but everythings well under control.

STO itself isn't so bad. And the Referral thing isn't that bad either. The main problem is the lack of content. People are bored. And instead of spending time IN THE GAME, they spend time in the forums. We should all be playing, not posting stuff.

The bored masses read the forums... and then it gets to them. Perfectly peaceful people looking for answers are only confronted with complaints in the forum. And in their state of apathy... they adopt the perspectives of the ranters... and start to agree, to find more and more stuff to be upset about. Every complaint in this forum becomes THEIR problem too, even if they didn't even notice it themselves.

Detach yourselves from other peoples opinions and angers. Realize how the game was really for you. Where you that upset before you read all of this? Play for some time. If it's not for you, take a break. DON'T read the forums. Just do something else. Wait for the next patch.

It might be slow, but this game IS getting better. No one wants to be upset. So just. Don't. Be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
05-07-2010, 03:00 AM
Well, unlike a lot of games, at least complaining works here. We know it does because we've seen things change in response to our "forum riots" as one dev put it.

The KDF is getting PvE content only because we rioted on the forums about it. If I remember right, Zinc's remark was something like, "They want Klingon PvE content, who knew?" So as much as the dev-a$$-kissers and yes men might complain about it, Cryptic has shown us that rioting on their forums IS the correct way to go about affecting change. Because it's what works.

If Cryptic doesn't want us rioting on their forums then they need to stop giving in to the rioters and start banning them. Since that's unlikely to happen, then the Cryptic devs need to start acting like adults. They need to quit posting on the forum about how mean the forum meanies are to them, they need to grow up and get over it and move on and do their jobs. Just like real grownup adult type people.

The fact is that STO doesn't have enough content, much of the content that it does have is 'madlib' trash, and the sandbox elements are too few and too limited to keep people's interest for any length of time. If the Season 2 update is anywhere near as big as some of the devs are trying to hint that it is, then STO may finally become a full-fledged MMO. Until then, the Cryptic devs and their forum yes men are going to have to learn with the forum negativity, because at this point it's all that STO and Cryptic deserves.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
05-07-2010, 03:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine_Falcon View Post
Well, unlike a lot of games, at least complaining works here. We know it does because we've seen things change in response to our "forum riots" as one dev put it.

The KDF is getting PvE content only because we rioted on the forums about it. If I remember right, Zinc's remark was something like, "They want Klingon PvE content, who knew?" So as much as the dev-a$$-kissers and yes men might complain about it, Cryptic has shown us that rioting on their forums IS the correct way to go about affecting change. Because it's what works.

If Cryptic doesn't want us rioting on their forums then they need to stop giving in to the rioters and start banning them. Since that's unlikely to happen, then the Cryptic devs need to start acting like adults. They need to quit posting on the forum about how mean the forum meanies are to them, they need to grow up and get over it and move on and do their jobs. Just like real grownup adult type people.

The fact is that STO doesn't have enough content, much of the content that it does have is 'madlib' trash, and the sandbox elements are too few and too limited to keep people's interest for any length of time. If the Season 2 update is anywhere near as big as some of the devs are trying to hint that it is, then STO may finally become a full-fledged MMO. Until then, the Cryptic devs and their forum yes men are going to have to learn with the forum negativity, because at this point it's all that STO and Cryptic deserves.
I am... A-MAZED.

Peregrine... I am almost certain, that your posts have more bite than mine now! Becareful, and I mean that sincerely. There is a perceptible move towards silencing, censoring, and discriminating against people who are the least bit critical (even those who are respected here)... and this is not paranoia speaking... these words are coming from the fingers of a very reasonable and level headed individual! If only I could spill the specifics, but we know what would transpire if that were to happen.

In terms of what you say about season 2, and "if its being anywhere as near as big as they are trying to hint that it is..." well... remember how they hyped up the genesis engine, and how they used the "45 day patch" as a marketing tactic. Grain of salt, and "wait and see" is all I have to say.

But as I say again... YIKES! Regardless, I for one agree with your points.
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