Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
05-07-2010, 03:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacobFlowers View Post
Read the following carefully:

In comes Atari... known for fledgling finances/deficets in their fiscal reports. They see Cryptic as a cost efficient way to enter the lucrative MMO market. UNFORTUNATELY, there is a "contractual agreement" in place for the Star Trek IP, either imposed by CBS or Atari... no one is clear on this point. I would venture to say that it isn't too far from the truth to contend that it was Atari who imposed the contractual agreement, for most of us are aware of the purported $20million bonus that Cryptic would get if they completed STO within the first quarter of 2010 (or something like that, details hazy, forgive me), and to reach certain undisclosed sales goals.
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.

Here's a link to the official Atari Memo on acquiring Cryptic.

Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.

You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.

There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.

Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.

They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.

This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.

I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.

That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
05-07-2010, 03:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Sutherland
Mirror unis for all :O
If I could I would give you Mirror uni's just so you'd stop posting that in every thread on the damn forums! :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
05-07-2010, 04:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirror-Master
WARNING: Wall of Text (sorry). Important points highlighted.

Here's a link to the official Atari Memo on acquiring Cryptic.

Search for "bonus" which appears on page 2. The bonus is actually for out performing revenue targets for CO and STO combined. There's two payout periods, the first scheduled for August of this year. The bonus may have something to do with the contractual launch date but I think it's more than likely CBS since they put up with Perpetual's vaporware for so long.

You're right that Atari acquired Cryptic specifically for their ability to quickly develop a MMO with a reduced budget and reduced resources. Cryptic uses that and their proprietary game engine which facilitates this to market themselves. Jack Emmert also mentioned how quickly STO would be finished in Vegas 2008.

There's nothing really wrong with this business wise... *if* that model fit the demand. What went wrong is CBS, Atari and Cryptic underestimated the response to STO. This is proven during Closed Beta where they simply were overwhelmed by the numbers of people who had access. Plans were changed for CB purchasers so the servers wouldn't be overloaded. Then at open beta the test servers had to be converted into live servers, etc. We know the story.

Cryptic is now the little engine that could. I don't believe they are evil people who don't care about Star Trek and who just want to grab our money so they can go onto their next MMO. They were faced with a difficult situation given their size, the overwhelming demand and the grand scope of the Star Trek IP.

They had to launch under contractual agreement. Simply put... They bit off more than they could chew. It explains everything from no TOS mini skirt at launch to an undone Klingon faction. Everything people have been ranting and raving for they want to do but didn't have the time & resources for.

This "minimal resource required" business model continues. Cryptic has lost plenty of subs (some claim a hemorrhage) over them not being able to meet player demands for features and content. I think it's maybe not a hemorrhage but certainly more than that "it's normal for MMOs to loose subs after launch" argument.

I believe they are doing their very best but most everything has to be implemented on a triage basis. I think they are honestly busting their nuggets not only for us players but also so they can show Atari and CBS that they are up to this challenge. If people understand this maybe they would be more understanding.

That being said, I still understand people who are upset about STO. After all, corners were cut to get the game launched. Advertised features are still not available or were made available much later than anticipated. The irate customer is not at fault here. Some understanding should be given to that angry person too, especially those who are staying to fight for the features they want.
Can I nominate you as the lead voice of reason?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
05-07-2010, 04:04 AM
To the OP. It depends on what the too far is. I think if, as a consumer of this product, you don't like what they're doing with it... yes you have a right to speak up about it. However, I also don't think that gives you the right to... cut them down and make'em feel like they've been drug through the mud. It is a fine line sometimes since often in mmo communities items like this are passionately discussed.

Hell, I'd say sometimes we get borderline fanatical about our games. Gamers that is I guess I'm saying. Speaking of bad ideas dooming an mmo as if it were our best friend... or only friend we have.

I'd like to think the above is just an exaggeration but sometimes even I have to stand back after a post and say to myself... damn... did I really put that much thought into a video game debate?

I guess for me, with 7 years of mmo play under my belt now, I think I have to look back on a good piece of Army Values I remember. Respect: Treat people as they should be treated. I think we forget that sometimes and do, indeed, make this or that person feel pretty crappy at their job. We can disagree and keep it respectful at the same time.

Maybe we can look at Wil Wheaton's PAX speech from awhile back as the perfect example: "Don't be a *edit*!"

If you think you've gone too far... and you know if you have... just chill for a bit. On the flip side of things I'm sure the Cryptic Team is quite open to criticisms as long as we attempt to keep it respectful. Even if that incurs just saying, "I'm angry about this."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
05-07-2010, 04:09 AM
We (the Forums) will stop complaining when they (CBS/Atari/Cryptic) stop giving us reason to.

Every "****gate" had a reason and they just keep going on throwing the next slap in our Faces.

You know the anger behind those "****gates" are not forgotten, they STACK!

It's as simple as that.



***

What i expected from the C-Store was that i get Canon Ships there, Canon Uniforms and everything Cryptic created just goes in the game for *free* (which means for the expensive monthly fee).

But Reality is, on the C-Store goes mostly Cryptic designed stuff (Ships + Bridges) and Canon stuff... which is the only reason i want to play a Star Trek Game get's thrown out as extras that are UBER HARD to get.
I did not get the Constitution Class... and i friggen hate Gamestop.
I'm still ****ed because of this.
Now the Galaxy-X.... which is a pyramid System so it is IMPOSSIBLE for everyone to get it.

by now i only think, what will be next?


So... did we go to far or did they go to far?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
05-07-2010, 04:13 AM
if it walks like a duck and quaks like a duck its a duck.....just like a poster before, a turd is a turd no matter what you do to it..

Cryptic made there bed now they have to lay in it.....they new well before hand this was a ship that was wanted for a lonf time from lots of players.

this item should have been in the VET rewards for like day 300....that would make subscribers stay not get new players in for 1-2 months then the new players go ohhh look no content...and then cancel!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
05-07-2010, 04:46 AM
Ok, for some I think there is a missed point.

I am not saying don't be angry. I am not saying don't voice your opinions. All I was getting at was maybe we should stop and think what negative effects we are having. If you can answer that and have no problem with the answer, then by all means, continue. I am not trying to convince anyone to stop, only to pause and make sure we are correct in what we are doing as a community.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
05-07-2010, 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
Ok, for some I think there is a missed point.

I am not saying don't be angry. I am not saying don't voice your opinions. All I was getting at was maybe we should stop and think what negative effects we are having. If you can answer that and have no problem with the answer, then by all means, continue. I am not trying to convince anyone to stop, only to pause and make sure we are correct in what we are doing as a community.
Well... I'm really hard-pressed to believe that being vocal is a bad thing unless you're someone like Hagon. Choosing not to be vocal, especially in response to claims that you're the 'vocal minority' (not being made here, I know, but it's a big issue Out There) just means the other vocal people get heard and you don't. Sometimes that ends up in nobody getting heard in the cacophony, but then at least you can say you tried. There is probably a point of going too far somewhere, and I'd say something like 'hand it to another developer' probably is past that point because, y'know, there's exactly nothing productive it can do here.

As kind of an aside, I'm actually amazed that I don't have a single infraction point yet given my tendency to respond explosively to undesired news at times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
05-07-2010, 05:06 AM
Speaking as someone who's worked retail, I can tell you that there is a fine line between being a customer with a complaint, and a screaming, entitled lunatic who treats each and every inconvenience like the Battle of Armageddon and who actively works to prevent people from addressing his complaint by being so loud and demanding.

I'm by no means capable of pointing out where that line is for this community, but I think it may have been crossed once or twice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
05-07-2010, 05:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicFB
Ok, for some I think there is a missed point.

I am not saying don't be angry. I am not saying don't voice your opinions. All I was getting at was maybe we should stop and think what negative effects we are having. If you can answer that and have no problem with the answer, then by all means, continue. I am not trying to convince anyone to stop, only to pause and make sure we are correct in what we are doing as a community.
I actually agree, we have the potential to take things to far on these forums. Do I think we did in this instance? A bit. Everyone had a reason to be angry. And we went hog wild. Not only did we bash Cryptic, we bash on each other, and quite often and vehemently. I don't think it did any overall harm, but as a forum community we need to be careful how far we take things. In this instance, it was a very rare ship offered for an excessive amount of work. It was never said it wouldn't be offered at a later date through the C-Store or any other means, just initially it was going to be through refer-a-friend. We jumped the gun before al the details of the ship itself were even released. We over reacted at Cryptic and amongst ourselves, and I am just as guilty.

The real danger we face in doing things like this is that for forum mods and devs will quit coming here and giving us updates. Same thing happened in WoW right after release. Eyonix and Caydiem were on the forums pretty regularly discussing bugs (lots of them), what was in the works, and fixes for stuff like class balance. They got met with rage and venom and posted much less. The forum ban hammer came out in force for a few weeks. Communication basically shut down between Blizzard and the forum community. This is something we don't want, especially since Cryptic is so good about giving us info on a regular basis.

There will be instances where our rage is justified. Personally, I don't believe this was one of them.
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