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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Now I know lots of people been commenting on the Target Shield Subsystems and how they are overpowered in PvP. But after a PvP match I just had now, there was this one Federation Escort that used nothing but Target Engines, I feel that the whole Targe Subsystems ability needs to be looked at.

I thought Engineering Team supposed to repair subsystems, but apparently it does not. Even with full repair systems.


So Cryptic, Kill (Nerf)or Cure (Countermeasures)!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-08-2010, 05:38 PM
there are counters allready... just have to use them...

1.) Reroute Powerlevels
2.) emergency power to (X) System...
3.) Batterys
4.) EPS Power transfer

there! counters :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-08-2010, 05:41 PM
Yeah, ive come up against that guy myself. Luckly he couldnt out dps my heals, so i ended up coming out on top.

I dont want them to nerf TSS myself i just want a proper counter measure for stacked drains. Batteries only last 6 seconds... and have a 3 min global cooldown...

Plus you can never tell if a system was drained or knocked offline... it would be nice if it was more clear.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-08-2010, 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusch View Post
there are counters allready... just have to use them...

1.) Reroute Powerlevels
2.) emergency power to (X) System...
3.) Batterys
4.) EPS Power transfer

there! counters :p
Those arn't countermeasures, just temporarly assistance. :p

Just find it funny that this has no real cure, considering what was done to Viral Matrix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted_Turner_3rd View Post
Yeah, ive come up against that guy myself. Luckly he couldnt out dps my heals, so i ended up coming out on top.

I dont want them to nerf TSS myself i just want a proper counter measure for stacked drains. Batteries only last 6 seconds... and have a 3 min global cooldown...

Plus you can never tell if a system was drained or knocked offline... it would be nice if it was more clear.
Indeed. I killed the guy 2 times while TSE was on me. He didn't get me until he got help on the third spawn run, plus my RSPs were all in cooldown. But the whole time that debuff was on me. So I thought, "What inconvience that I can't fix it."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-08-2010, 06:07 PM
A. those are counters, and there are a few he didn't list.
B. If you are using said counters and it isn't removing the affect, than the player using it on you, was exploiting. In which case, report him and take any evidence you can.

C. All the Target sub abilities combined are not as overpowered as SNB. Which, by the way has no counter. Only buff strip in a buff based game, without even a moderate cooldown.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-08-2010, 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by akumarev
BTS targets you (doesn't matter what level) use EPTS while your power levels are still high.
look at the debuffs on you, if it is only one BTS debuff you will be fine with a simple counter but you must let the effect run its course.
BTS stacked you must use EPTS use energy siphon or call for a EPS transfer from a teammate, again another reason why VOIP software is critical for competative PVP since typing it out will take to long.
wait a few to see the full drain affects.
If and when your shield power levels drop to 0 then hit a battery, by that time the first BTS debuff will be gone since they only last 17-20 seconds long.
If you notice all 3 being stacked on you then at that point you have a few options, get hull heals, engineer team (the hull resist is amazing on it and can help you take lots of hits) haz Em the hull heal will help but the resist stacks with ET resist, the science on the team should use dampening field for more resist, use brace for impact (grossly underused).
Or
full power to engines and emergency manuevers and run right at the escorts and by them since most escorts run cannons they will lose most of the fireppower they have.
For those that missed it you should read this again.

For those of you that are inexperienced or new to pvp you should read this several times.


It is textbook strategy on dealing with Target Subsystems: Shields.

It's what the 2 good PvP Fleets have been doing since day 1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-08-2010, 06:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Those arn't countermeasures, just temporarly assistance. :p
Pretty sure Emergency Power to Subsystem is designed specifically to act as a countermeasure to subsystems being drained.

That's how Snix made it sound in the thread about the Viral Matrix changes. Those powers are supposed to work on the new VM just as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-08-2010, 07:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
For those that missed it you should read this again.

For those of you that are inexperienced or new to pvp you should read this several times.


It is textbook strategy on dealing with Target Subsystems: Shields.

It's what the 2 good PvP Fleets have been doing since day 1.
So, according to this, you need a team to counter an ability 1 man can use on you. Does that seem a bit odd?

Seems odd to me.

Don't forget that parts of the "solo" counters have 3 minute cooldowns when the power has a 30 second cooldown. Furthermore there is no way to distinguish what is drained and what is disabled.

I am not saying that the power should be removed from the game. But 1 on 1.. .there should be some kind of counter that is AVAILABLE for a person to put on his bar. He may not have it.. then.. he is S.O.L.

But as it stands, the powers that are supposed to repair BTS powers do not. They are short term fixes.

This and stacking are ridiculous. One person can stack a BTTS 2 and 3 at the same time. That means 1 person can pretty much remove somebody's shields or whatever each and every time with no real counter in this 1 on one assault. That is just not acceptable.

If stacking was removed, it still could be used by a coordinated team

BTSS, BTSW, BTSE, BTSA,.. all stacked from different players on the same ship at the same time would be extremely effective. What is he going to do to you with all sytems running at around 5 lol.

Let's have some diversity in our game instead of the FOTM stack BTS powers until there is no way anybody can every use a system again.

Furthermore the BTS powers should reduce the power level by a fixed % instead of a number. That way it can be more manageable. There will still be a chance at system disabling, but not 100% of the time, the way it can be done now.

BTTS 1 = 30%
BTTS 2 = 45%
BTTS 3 = 60%

There... solid numbers with stacking done with diminishing returns for additional...like defenses.. if you want to stack.

Sorry, but 1 person's attacks should not need a team to counter it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-08-2010, 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
So, according to this, you need a team to counter an ability 1 man can use on you. Does that seem a bit odd?

Seems odd to me.

Don't forget that parts of the "solo" counters have 3 minute cooldowns when the power has a 30 second cooldown. Furthermore there is no way to distinguish what is drained and what is disabled.

I am not saying that the power should be removed from the game. But 1 on 1.. .there should be some kind of counter that is AVAILABLE for a person to put on his bar. He may not have it.. then.. he is S.O.L.

But as it stands, the powers that are supposed to repair BTS powers do not. They are short term fixes.

This and stacking are ridiculous. One person can stack a BTTS 2 and 3 at the same time. That means 1 person can pretty much remove somebody's shields or whatever each and every time with no real counter in this 1 on one assault. That is just not acceptable.

If stacking was removed, it still could be used by a coordinated team

BTSS, BTSW, BTSE, BTSA,.. all stacked from different players on the same ship at the same time would be extremely effective. What is he going to do to you with all sytems running at around 5 lol.

Let's have some diversity in our game instead of the FOTM stack BTS powers until there is no way anybody can every use a system again.

Furthermore the BTS powers should reduce the power level by a fixed % instead of a number. That way it can be more manageable. There will still be a chance at system disabling, but not 100% of the time, the way it can be done now.

BTTS 1 = 30%
BTTS 2 = 45%
BTTS 3 = 60%

There... solid numbers with stacking done with diminishing returns for additional...like defenses.. if you want to stack.

Sorry, but 1 person's attacks should not need a team to counter it.
Well I agree to most of that, however.
The numbers being a fixed drain?

A. Well the number is not only based on science skills, but consoles, and deflector stats as well. Add to that the only players capable of getting rank 1 are science vessels.
It would just be sheer sense to move all of them to science BoFF and make them un-stackable as it has been said. Not only that but it adds to the sensibility since all other power drain abilities are in the science pool anyway. In addition, I do not see any science abilities based on say training towards weapons, or tactical consoles, so it is clear logic even if it is or isn't "canon".

B. If NOT the other route to make sense of it all would be that perhaps science vessels should not get the rank 1 at all, and have it be an ensign tactical ability, and it should be based on tactical based skill training and consoles.

Yes, I can go even further:
If Tactical's specialization ship class, escorts, are designed predominantly to be majority cannon based weaponry, than really why not have cannon versions, if the above (A) suggestion was implemented, to replace those, having the cannon versions based on tier 1 and 2 weapon related training (Energy weapons => Cannons) as well as more or less the "red-headed step child" tactical consoles such as +to Cannons, bringing more use to those, and less to stacking energy damage type. Instead of draining a power type, which is science's forte, have it debuff a more simple and basic stat, like Accuracy, Crit Severity, or a more sophisticated stat like Sensor Array
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-08-2010, 08:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayupan
Well I agree to most of that, however.
The numbers being a fixed drain?
That was just a "spitball" idea. I understand that skills and consoles add in. But I was just giving an example, of something that could work, if the dynamics are worked out,


But the way it stands, this is pretty much broken.

Yet at the same time, these premade groups keep wondering why the PvP population is dropping, while they are frustrating players out of PvP.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

Reminds me of an episode of the Honeymooners.... where Ralph is telling his wife Alice that he is the king and she is nothing... and he keeps saying it until he tells her to recite what he is.

She says..

"Your the king of nothing."

That is where they are headed.
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