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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-09-2010, 01:48 AM
My ONLY problem with Target Subsystem (x) is that there is no dimishing returns for it (As far as I know, making the hatted assumption here) when hit by different users of the power.

For example: Say Escort A uses TSS III for -70, then Cruiser B uses TSS II for -30, your down -100 right there for the duration. And then if Science Ships A-C ALSO use TSS, it's even more.

Sure it fades as each duration of each layer drops off, and yes you can "counter" it, but like it has been stated, those counters don't usually out last repeated shots from Multiple or Focused uses of Target Subsystem (x). Now of course this is assuming that your on a Pug either in a Space Arena Cracked Planet 5v5 Type and not a much larger Capture and Hold. Because of course the more players involved the harder it really is to stay alive in focused attacks. Not to mention this also doesn't state how it works in more Organized "premade/FoTM" PVP. (Note: Not trying to use Premade or FoTM in a degratority way towards Organized PVP, just using it incase some people use those terms to explain Organized PVP)

So I don't totally feel that Target subsystem (x) needs a "nerf" but a tweek in how mutiple opponents are stacked.

(Side note: It's a little funny how I really didn't start to see this happen till almost imeaditely after the 1.1 Patch. Yay changes...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-09-2010, 06:54 AM
The simple and right answer, in my opinion, is to make it so the target subsystem attacks of the same type do not stack at all, and only the highest drain is applied. So TSS 3 would overwrite TSS 1 or 2 in most cases, not stack with them. But you could have TSS 3, TSE3, TSW3, and TSA3 all on the same target if you were that coordinated.

This would mean they either have to lose that system with a high enough drain, or switch power to that system to make it work which means they are losing power elsewhere. No one should lose a system for the entire duration if they route power to it, especially if they add in an EPtX.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23 TS I-III nerf
05-14-2010, 05:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
The simple and right answer, in my opinion, is to make it so the target subsystem attacks of the same type do not stack at all, and only the highest drain is applied. So TSS 3 would overwrite TSS 1 or 2 in most cases, not stack with them. But you could have TSS 3, TSE3, TSW3, and TSA3 all on the same target if you were that coordinated.

This would mean they either have to lose that system with a high enough drain, or switch power to that system to make it work which means they are losing power elsewhere. No one should lose a system for the entire duration if they route power to it, especially if they add in an EPtX.
AMEN!

I also use and being abused by these skill, as long as there is no stack you have enough countermeaures agains it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-14-2010, 06:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
You DO NOT need a team to counter TSS from ONE player.

You DO Need a team to counter it from MULTIPLE players.
THIS.

And that sums the thread really pluss i would like to see the stacking of BTSS removed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-14-2010, 07:05 AM
With removing the stacking(or capping it at 125) and making the drain/disable scalable depending on the weapon (or AUX !!) energy levels (to prevent full impulse = full drain capability) you would probably "fix" the ability and make it much more interesting option and supplemental ability.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-14-2010, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
... But with two new fleet recruits (one still in a science vessel) it was a lost cause from the beginning...lol.
*yawn*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TuLB...eature=related
*yawn*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-14-2010, 07:36 AM
i would not call TSS-X overpowered, but i most definatly have an issue with the move after i thougt things throug. people like akumarev stated their are counters to the move, even when stacked. altough technicly he is correct, he fails to mention that in countering the move u already lost. bear with me for a moment:

eg 1vs1 escort:

one with TSS one without. TSS gets fired and power is being drained. now lets say TSSSIII was used and now escort B is down 70 shield power. for most escorts i would think this will drop the shields. to counter this move escort B has to take power out of weapons and put them into shields, thus decreasing his weapon power. he doesnt need to do this right away but eventualy he will have to.
escort A can stay at full weapons power. the inbalance is now already taking into effect. add the fact that you will have to micro very much to keep you shield power up (using your EPtS, EPS (if u got that, or any other moves), redistributing power allocation, u are likely going to get out maneuvred as well this means that yet another inballance comes as a direct result from using this weapon. and it is these two that making the counters to TSS-X not realy viable, sure they work but will u be able to win the encounter or even survive it? i think not.

ofcoure i conveniently disregarded the use of any other BO powers in this little equation. but i think i did make some valid point.

when push comes to shove and when i think about it the only prob i realy see is the III version and the stacking. the way i see it you have 100 points of power to allocate. when TSS III is used u lose 70 power wich leaves u with only 30 left to allocate. i feel that a max drain of 50 should be max (for one power) so it would be much more difficult to completly dissable a ship but it could still be done with 4 times TSS for each power. that said TSSS would not be an effective counter to RSP and then you would have to look at that again.
ahhhh breing balance is a hard job, just let chaos reign supreme
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-14-2010, 07:42 AM
I don't see any problem with TS: Engines or Shields or Aux (yes in PVP some guy was shooting me with TS:Aux, don't ask me why, it happened, and I spilt coffee on my lap..skin issues atm, but thats besides the point).

I can remember multiple episodes where I've heard Kirk, Picard, Janeway or Sisko say:
"More power to.."
"Divert emergency power to..."
"Divert Auxillary power to..."
"Shut down all systems except minimal power to lifesupport..."
"Target their engines.."
"Target their weapons.."

People demand dynamic power levels for their ship, but if anything external or hostile changes those power levels, then people cry bloody murder.

So here's my suggestion. If in the films and series power can be diverted from one system to any other system, then the same should be available ingame. There should no longer be a +25 imposed minimum to any power system. That way if you are unfortunate enough to get targtetted by both TS:Shields + Engines (or Aux lol), you have an additional +50 power to distribute along with anything else you can muster.

Shield, Aux and Engine Batteries (not Weapon) should have the capacity to push your power levels above 125 every time they are used in order to counter multiple stacked versions of any TS:X.

If all of these countermeasures fail, and you are focus fired by 3+ ships all stacking this effect, why do you think you should have any chance of survival without the assistance of team mates? Even the Think Tank in the Voyager episode with a solid neutronium hull, could not surive an attack by the Hazari, you honestly think you should? :p

Just my 2 pennies, since in the UK we don't have cents.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-14-2010, 07:57 AM
oh, i wasnt crying murder. i did say i didnt think its op (TSSIII is prety hard to come by so not used that often) but i do have an issue with how exessive the impact is to an opponent. bare in mind that my example was a 1vs1 situation. when u take multiple ships with this ability and using them to their full extent with proper coordination (and i have nothing against that what so ever) their is very little you can do about that.

i realy dont think people should be able to survive barrages from 3 ships at once, not at all. but i would expect a ship to stand a fighting chance to go down with honour.

all im saying is that the current way is a little bit to much of the good stuff, a kind tweak is in order. but that can be said of everything. i like pvp alot atm but i feel it can often go to fast and thats because of certain things. specialy escort things.

ps i play a tac escort myself and doing prety well most of the time, all cannons so i dont use TSS-X for personal reasons. just to ad, im not on the NERF TSS TO HELL team.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-14-2010, 08:04 AM
Nothing I said was directed at you mate Was just talking in general. Sorry for the confusion.
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