Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-10-2010, 12:30 AM
the changes really have only improved what was already there. if 'there' itself was not enough the last time then nothing of significance is going to draw you back. season 2 seams the big patch and i would recommend checking it out after that
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
05-10-2010, 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
the changes really have only improved what was already there. if 'there' itself was not enough the last time then nothing of significance is going to draw you back. season 2 seams the big patch and i would recommend checking it out after that
I agree, 1.1 was mostly trying to patch up holes. When we get the promised weekly episodes along with the other Season 2 content in July I'd suggest coming back and seeing if the path that the game is headed down is for you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
05-10-2010, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
In a way you missed something, but maybe not too much.

In regards to advancement, most roleplaying games (even "pen & paper" ones where you don't have a stupid computer managing the NPCs but a human player) use some kind of experience point or skill point system where you get points for achieving goals and can spend them in any way you like, even if this is not actually related to what you did.
Interesting. As far as RPGs go I'm most familiar with WoW (and Oblivion only a little); I never played those pen & paper one's but I know what you're referring to.

Thinking about this some more, the way talent points are given out in WoW as you level up, it's as if the talent points represent the time you would have had in the duration between leveling up to practice certain things. In spending a talent point, it's as if you're deciding retroactively which talents your character worked on in that time. Of course, you have to do stuff to earn xp to level, but it's hard to avoid getting xp. So leveling up is sort of inevitable. It feels like having a birthday. In fact, i know people who refer to their RL birthday's as leveling up. In STO, however, it feels like the admiralty are just handing you actual skills. "Good job, Captain. Here, have some skills."

Perhaps, under a naturally accumulating skills system, in addition to skilling up via direct practice, you could be given training points to spend at a starbase with an expert in that area. It's just that, in my mind, skills are something that you are taught or that you develop through practice. You can't be given a skill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
In Startrek Online, there is one "learning-by-doing" skill system at the moment - this would be Memory Alpha as its "crafting" system. The current UI is not very helpful in understand what is going on (the test server has a better UI that will go live soon), but basically, the more you craft, the higher level items you can create.

As I understand, the plans for the Prime Directive (not sure if that's still the name) system to cover diplomatic missions and stuff like that is supposed to also have a skill system like that. But that isn't in the game yet. You might want to check for updates when the next welcome-back weekend comes around to see if it's implemented already and how you can access it then.
Those updates sound very encouraging, particularly the Prime Directive one. I will definitely try those out if there is another welcome-back weekend.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Certainly a good point. Particularly because parts of the skill system are... difficult to understand. I mean, increasing your starship weapon skills is intuitively easy to understand, but getting what a skill like "Doctor" actually affects and what you need to do to benefit is ... less so.
There was something added to the skills window that will help alleviate some of the confusion.

When looking at your captain's skills window you will notice a drop down menu on the top right corner called "Highlight Contributions To:". Using this drop down menu you can select one of your powers, or one of your bridge officer's powers and it will show which skills will boost those powers.

There is a known issue though that there is no "none" option in the drop down menu so the only way to turn it off and show all of your skills is to uncheck the "Contributing to Selected Power" filter (which is located on the top left corner of the skills window).

Personally I think that is the coolest thing ever and makes knowing where to allocate skill points SO much easier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-10-2010, 01:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AReed
I is it that bad? I tried on my own for about 30 seconds then gave up.
Not sure from your post on how you did it - you have to build a team before you start the mission and enter as a team. It's not like a Fleet Action or Open Instance game.

That said, it might still be hard to find a player. The "Radisodes" take a lot of time and effort, and the random guy on the internet might not have time when you have. I personally didn't try any of them yet, since they might take very long when things don't work out well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-10-2010, 01:19 AM
First off, let me congratulate the OP on being one of the first people to actually understand the use of constructive criticism. I have seen several post where people just basically rip the game apart under the pretense of "constructive criticism". Your accounting of your experience is very personal and your it is something you share well, even if I found some of your reasoning to be a bit lazy.

I will try to be constructive in return. I agree that much of the game is 'gun and run' and the things that aren't could use some work. I think Cryptic had to strike a balance between the people who wanted the combat aspect of Star Trek (think recent film) and the Diplomatic (think old ST). I think the combat won. Diplomacy is something that they are working on and hopefully when you come back next time you will find it. But you will have to be a little less lazy and actually spend some time getting to learn how to interact with the officers and such. I agree that there is little by way of side interaction and I do wish that there was something of which you speak like being hit on at a bar or someone starting a fight with you because they don't like the way you look and they are wanted n several star systems blah blah. But I am glad that the overall function of the game is good. I too played WoW and I played City of Heroes and I have to say that I prefer the Star Trek interface over at least the WoW. City of Heroes is hard to beat but it had it's own issues with repetativeness. One thing I am glad that they DID NOT do was follow the ridiculous bonuses that sets (and rare purple crafted sets) gave that made PvP impossible for the casual player. That created a group of farmers and out of game credit seekers so they could make juggernaut PvP toons ... which essentially is not fun. But I digress. There are holodecks and there are all sorts of mission that incorporate the diplomacy and trek world but sometimes you have done so many missions where all you did was click through the dialogue that you just miss it. To be succinct, my problems with the game stem from basic physics. Any moron knows that ships don't have to fly like they are in an atmosphere when in space. "What? I can't fly straight down to pick up that drop? I have to spiral my way down to get it?" Seriously, of all of the lame-brained things, this is what bugs me most about the game. I suppose it is canon though. Babylon 5 blew Star Treks physics out of the water with Star Furies and Ships that created artificial gravity with spinning sections but that's neither here nor there. There is simply no excuse to ignore the physics of ships in space ... none.

So, when you do come back, be patient. Ask someone for advice. I know there are a lot of wise-asses that crucify noobs but there are quite a few people willing to help people, (like me) out there and I would be more than happy to show you who to talk to and when. Send me a friend invite next time, same global and I will help you through the not-so-obvious interface.

On that note, I would say that Cryptic needs to make their interface a bit more user friendly. Old gamers and pro's have no issue with it but people who are casual gamers are frustrated to tears. It's really not all that hard but it's definitely not obvious. Good luck to you and thank you for being constructive. It's a nice refreshing change from what I usually see on these forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-10-2010, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GM_IndigoFyre
There was something added to the skills window that will help alleviate some of the confusion.

When looking at your captain's skills window you will notice a drop down menu on the top right corner called "Highlight Contributions To:". Using this drop down menu you can select one of your powers, or one of your bridge officer's powers and it will show which skills will boost those powers.

There is a known issue though that there is no "none" option in the drop down menu so the only way to turn it off and show all of your skills is to uncheck the "Contributing to Selected Power" filter (which is located on the top left corner of the skills window).

Personally I think that is the coolest thing ever and makes knowing where to allocate skill points SO much easier.
It's cool, however it's still lacking some of the options, like Reverse Shield Polarity. Also, it could be awkward when, from example above, you like to see which powers a Doctor skill influences. Then you have to check every item on that drop down to see which one highlights a Doctor. It would be so much easier that a list of ALL powers and stats that are influenced by a particular skill is written on it's info window.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
05-10-2010, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
In regards to advancement, most roleplaying games (even "pen & paper" ones where you don't have a stupid computer managing the NPCs but a human player) use some kind of experience point or skill point system where you get points for achieving goals and can spend them in any way you like, even if this is not actually related to what you did.
No One Lives Forever 2: A Spy in Harms Way had a skill point based advancement system, though you could only increase stealth, accuracy, carrying, armour, and health.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
05-10-2010, 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Not sure from your post on how you did it - you have to build a team before you start the mission and enter as a team. It's not like a Fleet Action or Open Instance game.

That said, it might still be hard to find a player. The "Radisodes" take a lot of time and effort, and the random guy on the internet might not have time when you have. I personally didn't try any of them yet, since they might take very long when things don't work out well.
Before I quit playing when ever I went near that system for infected there was usually 20+ players hanging around but when i went during the weekend not a single player was there. I comment was really is infected that unpopular already? I had given it a go a while back and played for a couple of hours (got bored in the end) all i was planning on doing this time was flying around going phew phew at the big cubes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-10-2010, 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcturus1 View Post
First off, let me congratulate the OP on being one of the first people to actually understand the use of constructive criticism. I have seen several post where people just basically rip the game apart under the pretense of "constructive criticism". Your accounting of your experience is very personal and your it is something you share well, even if I found some of your reasoning to be a bit lazy.

I will try to be constructive in return. I agree that much of the game is 'gun and run' and the things that aren't could use some work. I think Cryptic had to strike a balance between the people who wanted the combat aspect of Star Trek (think recent film) and the Diplomatic (think old ST). I think the combat won. Diplomacy is something that they are working on and hopefully when you come back next time you will find it. But you will have to be a little less lazy and actually spend some time getting to learn how to interact with the officers and such. I agree that there is little by way of side interaction and I do wish that there was something of which you speak like being hit on at a bar or someone starting a fight with you because they don't like the way you look and they are wanted n several star systems blah blah. But I am glad that the overall function of the game is good. I too played WoW and I played City of Heroes and I have to say that I prefer the Star Trek interface over at least the WoW. City of Heroes is hard to beat but it had it's own issues with repetativeness. One thing I am glad that they DID NOT do was follow the ridiculous bonuses that sets (and rare purple crafted sets) gave that made PvP impossible for the casual player. That created a group of farmers and out of game credit seekers so they could make juggernaut PvP toons ... which essentially is not fun. But I digress. There are holodecks and there are all sorts of mission that incorporate the diplomacy and trek world but sometimes you have done so many missions where all you did was click through the dialogue that you just miss it. To be succinct, my problems with the game stem from basic physics. Any moron knows that ships don't have to fly like they are in an atmosphere when in space. "What? I can't fly straight down to pick up that drop? I have to spiral my way down to get it?" Seriously, of all of the lame-brained things, this is what bugs me most about the game. I suppose it is canon though. Babylon 5 blew Star Treks physics out of the water with Star Furies and Ships that created artificial gravity with spinning sections but that's neither here nor there. There is simply no excuse to ignore the physics of ships in space ... none.

So, when you do come back, be patient. Ask someone for advice. I know there are a lot of wise-asses that crucify noobs but there are quite a few people willing to help people, (like me) out there and I would be more than happy to show you who to talk to and when. Send me a friend invite next time, same global and I will help you through the not-so-obvious interface.

On that note, I would say that Cryptic needs to make their interface a bit more user friendly. Old gamers and pro's have no issue with it but people who are casual gamers are frustrated to tears. It's really not all that hard but it's definitely not obvious. Good luck to you and thank you for being constructive. It's a nice refreshing change from what I usually see on these forums.
Thanks for the offer. If there is another welcome-back weekend I will definitely take you up on that. I think I may have come back too early. When the overall feel of the game post-tutorial turned out to be much the same, I couldn't be bothered continuing on. But I like the sound of the diplomacy system. I will certainly give that a good go, as long as I can find my way to missions that involve it.

So, yes, I was certainly impatient. But I may be representative of a certain proportion of Cryptic's potential customers. In WoW and other games, however, there was always something enticing me to keep going. "Ooh, I wonder what is across that bridge? I'd better level up so I can pass those guards and cross it. Ooh, I want that mount. I'd better get a good reputation with that faction." So far, STO doesn't seem to have anything like that to keep me motivated to keep at it. Of course, it may be that STO just isn't for a causal gamer like me, no matter how much I love Star Trek. I may just eventually have to accept that.
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