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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
05-12-2010, 03:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
Hirogen, liberated or not from whatever, simply don't seem to fit the Romulans. The story in game makes no sense; why would a species with their technology and instincts make an alliance with a fallen empire? Hirogen fit much better in the KDF, so I'm all for making them playable here.

Cardassians... Nope, they would fit in the Fed if at all. The True Way still fights the Dominion War, so both Romulans and Klingons are considered enemies. The Cardassians are very fed-friendly and probably work on fulfilling requirements to join the Fed.

True the Hirogen would fit to the KDF better; anyway in my opinion they dont fit into the Alpha quadrant at all.

And the Cardassians, like I said above, THOSE Cardassians shown in the series do not fit to the federation at all. May be the Dominion war changed their attitude, but they would go with the Klingons much better.


By the way, concerning to races we dont even NEED new allience.
The KDF didnt go with the Orion homeworld. Thats still in Federation space. They allied with the Orion SYNDICATE. Threre are not just Orions in the Orion syndicate, there are... well almost all Alpha quadrant races.
And they do not have a "special" kind of ships, they use the ships they get. So there could me addet AL LOT of Klingon content with the Orions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12 Ok understood
05-12-2010, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
1. In what way would another suggestet race change the fact that Hirogen do not need liberation? They are no prisoners or anything, they joined forces with the ´Romulans... why ever.... by free will.

2. Why do we need another race to unlock Romulan space? Beside the fact that the Feds dont need other races to unlock sectors: WE ARE KLINGONS. If we want to Attack the Romulans we just do it. In the... that days because of the Galaxy X often discussed alt. Timeline of "all good things" we even conquered the complete Romulan space.
We neigther need reasons to go there nor hirogen, we just need the map to be opened.

And the Hirogen will probably be part of the upcoming Romulan faction anyway.

What we need to get unlocked are Orion and Gorn ships, they already are our allied.
Cardassians would be nice but i thing they prefer make the cardassian an own fraction sooner or later; if the game lifes that long...
I think i get your point i didnt mean too free them from somone but that is how i put it the point i am wnat to make is these steps would solve mult. thing
like spiece added to the KDF
free rome add to the KDF
and more ship options add to the KDF

If i want to get tech i could say the hirogen could need liberation after all some didnt want to be hunters they show intrest in sci so even a sci ship that could hold its own would kick but that geting off topic. and thank for yor input on how to make this a better laid out plan and the gorn Orion we all argee on
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
Hirogen, liberated or not from whatever, simply don't seem to fit the Romulans. The story in game makes no sense; why would a species with their technology and instincts make an alliance with a fallen empire? Hirogen fit much better in the KDF, so I'm all for making them playable here.

Cardassians... Nope, they would fit in the Fed if at all. The True Way still fights the Dominion War, so both Romulans and Klingons are considered enemies. The Cardassians are very fed-friendly and probably work on fulfilling requirements to join the Fed.
Very true the romuanls are more of the hirogens cunning pray and as for the game being cannon that was out the game from the get go. And as for the cardassians wave alittle power in thier face and they may bite other from being a ally in the alt unv we could offer thier space back and protection sence in the canon that what was the issue other then that the cardassians and the Klingon think highly of eachother culture
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
05-12-2010, 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven
I think i get your point i didnt mean too free them from somone but that is how i put it the point i am wnat to make is these steps would solve mult. thing
like spiece added to the KDF
free rome add to the KDF
and more ship options add to the KDF

If i want to get tech i could say the hirogen could need liberation after all some didnt want to be hunters they show intrest in sci so even a sci ship that could hold its own would kick but that geting off topic. and thank for yor input on how to make this a better laid out plan and the gorn Orion we all argee on
Well the Idea to "free" a species wich doesnt give a crap for science to be able to use science to include science ships into a fraction without science ships... is not really.... logical in my opinion.
Tha Cardassians, who actually give a lot on science as a method to gain power would suite much more for this purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKfourtyseven
And as for the cardassians wave alittle power in thier face and they may bite other from being a ally in the alt unv we could offer thier space back and protection sence in the canon that what was the issue other then that the cardassians and the Klingon think highly of eachother culture
That is true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
05-12-2010, 05:16 PM
Cardassians aren't that interested in science-science, in research terms. They are interested in technology that gives them an advantage over others - that goes for the original Cardassians, and would probably still apply to the True Way.
But then, the True Way makes no sense at all. So they are supposed to be the Cardassians that oppose the new Fed friendly government and want the old Cardassia back, yet they are allied with the Dominion that destroyed this Cardassia. *head desk*

A loading screen says Natima Lang is a member of the new Cardassian government. She was an outcast for teaching a more liberal policy before the Dominion War. With her in power, I assume the Cardassians that are not in the True Way are now in the position Bajor had before, and will sooner or later join the Fed. Stupid, if you ask me, because no version of the Cardassians is what fans want to play. No-one wants a Fed pet Cardy, and no-one wants a totally illogical True Way. Though, True Way is still the better choice because that faction would also get Jem'Hadar.

Anyways, the Hirogen and Romulans are a close second when it comes to totally no sense. The Hirogen had a network of relais stations in Voyager, shown in season 4, right behind Borg space. IF this network hadn't been destroyed by Janeway, there may have been a tiny chance the Hirogen would have encountered the Romulans. But Janeway did destroy it. No network, no Romulan contact.
On the other side: General Kurok, a liberated Borg Klingon, in a Borg (transwarp capable) sphere, in the Delta Quadrant, in Borg space... is quite a strong point for a KDF-Hirogen alliance. The first Hirogen the Voyager encountered were the swarm ships (season 2, before entering Borg space); all others were 'behind' Borg space. So no matter in what direction Kurok went, he probably met the Hirogen, and it would be logical to make some allies in his situation.

I would rather see Ferengi playable in the KDF. Its a match made in heaven. Ferengi have nearly no customization, bad/wrong traits, and no-one gives a damn. Sounds like KDF to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
05-12-2010, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
Cardassians aren't that interested in science-science, in research terms. They are interested in technology that gives them an advantage over others - that goes for the original Cardassians, and would probably still apply to the True Way.
The only of the "big fractions" beside the Federation who were interested in reseatch were, for suprise, Romulans. The arent a "source" for sciences for the Klingons.
The Cardassians care for sience because of other reasons, but still, they care. Enough to make it usable for military purposes; in other words: Science ships.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
But then, the True Way makes no sense at all. So they are supposed to be the Cardassians that oppose the new Fed friendly government and want the old Cardassia back, yet they are allied with the Dominion that destroyed this Cardassia. *head desk*
Yes, its very reasonable to allie with the people who commitet genozide on their homeplanet to get back what they had before that. Isnt that the message of Star Trek, forgivness and that? I see it, it is prophetic: the jews will become big buddys with the neonazis soon.

If the Cardassians want to regain power, an Alliance with the Klingons ist the most logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
A loading screen says Natima Lang is a member of the new Cardassian government. She was an outcast for teaching a more liberal policy before the Dominion War. With her in power, I assume the Cardassians that are not in the True Way are now in the position Bajor had before, and will sooner or later join the Fed. Stupid, if you ask me, because no version of the Cardassians is what fans want to play. No-one wants a Fed pet Cardy, and no-one wants a totally illogical True Way. Though, True Way is still the better choice because that faction would also get Jem'Hadar.


I guess they came up with that True Way crap to make a Dominion Fraction possible that has everything the Dominon had during the DW. But the result does not make ANY sense at all. If they wantet that they chose the wrong time, like said, the Dominion commitet Genozide to the Cardassians. There is no way back to be "big friends".

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
Anyways, the Hirogen and Romulans are a close second when it comes to totally no sense. The Hirogen had a network of relais stations in Voyager, shown in season 4, right behind Borg space. IF this network hadn't been destroyed by Janeway, there may have been a tiny chance the Hirogen would have encountered the Romulans. But Janeway did destroy it. No network, no Romulan contact.
The Alliance doesnt make sense. But I'm not that much wondered about the contact, The Hirogen did build that network once, in 30 years they might have rebuild it.
I wonder how they did come there so fast.
The Voyager hat, with "normal" Warp traven, an 80 year voyage. And the Hirogen can just warp in? Even if they are faster, why SHOULD they travel so far to meet fracking romulans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
On the other side: General Kurok, a liberated Borg Klingon, in a Borg (transwarp capable) sphere, in the Delta Quadrant, in Borg space... is quite a strong point for a KDF-Hirogen alliance. The first Hirogen the Voyager encountered were the swarm ships (season 2, before entering Borg space); all others were 'behind' Borg space. So no matter in what direction Kurok went, he probably met the Hirogen, and it would be logical to make some allies in his situation.
The hirogens obviously had a thing for the Klingons anyway, why else did they make a Klingon holosimulation ect?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
I would rather see Ferengi playable in the KDF. Its a match made in heaven. Ferengi have nearly no customization, bad/wrong traits, and no-one gives a damn. Sounds like KDF to me.
Thats another thing I dont get. Ferengie a neutral, if there are some in the Federation, why not in or with the KDF? We have Nausicans and Orions, good place for Business!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
05-12-2010, 07:53 PM
Hirogen. Sorry for being a bit smartass about that, I just watch Voyager and its all fresh.

Their relais stations were about 10.000 years old and build around tiny anomalies (1 cm black holes) that powered them and made such a large network possible. Janeway had the genius idea to destroy such a station, thus releasing the contained anomaly and turning it into a - gravity well. Which sucked in the attacking Hirogen and the station. And then pretty much fragged the entire network. So unless there was another extremly rare anomaly at the right time in the right place, the Hirogen did not get a chance to build a new network.

They also had no reason to extend their territory to Romulan space. The opposite was true. The Hirogen wanted to stop expanding, and give up their life as nomads. That is why they wanted the holo technology - to have enough prey in a smaller territory, and not fall apart as a culture. They had no reason to go anywhere after getting the technology, and even less to make any allies.
But - assuming they met a Klingon (not only Kurok was there, also a Klingon ship that still believed the Empire was at war with the Federation; a leftover ship from a deep space exploration mission), the Hirogen probably found more common traits than with the Romulans. Klingons enjoy hunting and collecting trophies, and they value strength and combat skills. The Hirogen also have a code of honor for their hunts.

With a bit imagination, the Hirogen had the scientific advantage (relais stations, but also armor, weapons, ships were quite advanced) the Klingons wanted; and the Klingons had what the Hirogen needed: a way to combine combat/hunting without losing their culture/territory. The Romulans had... umm, a supernova. Not too appealing to a species trying to get their own structure up and running again.

The Cardassians... I agree. This chaos is nothing but a sad attempt to satisfy fans by giving them a Dominion faction. I doubt anyone will really be happy with whatever comes out of it. The Cardassians had no token Fed member to really justify them as a Fed only species, the end of DS9 and following soft canon gives no option to keep them the way fans loved them - stubborn, arrogant, patriotic and secretive. The True Way is ultimately the continuation of what most people didn't like about Bajorans - extremists that lost the sense for reality and still fight a war that is long over.
Kira was always a perfect example how a species can not forgive in a picturebook utopia. She never got over her prejudice. She used 'I lost my family in the occupation' as a 'I'm always right' button. And the True Way now leads that ad absurdum - 'I survived the Dominion War, but hey, these Jem'Hadar are actually quite nice, I forgive them that they destroyed my world'.

More thoughts... Orions. Agreed on that, too. The KDF is allied with the Syndicate, not the entire world. For what reason? There is no canon saying the Syndicate suddenly got xenophobic. In many cases, the episodes dealing with the Syndicate didn't show a single Orion. It can be assumed they had a LOT members of other species. Members that had proven themselves worthy. So why suddenly kick them all out, reducing resources, possible infiltrators, income...? Just to have Orion in a Fed sector block, you could come to think.

Ferengi are very obviously portrayed the way they were before Rom became Nagus. The NPCs are all criminals, most notably in the company of Nausicaan pirates; Cryptic refers to gold farmers as 'Ferengi Smugglers' in a sticky... Another example of canon continuation gone wrong. Ferenginar is not a Fed member world. Soft canon references show Ferenginar did not happily embrace the new policy - many males opposed Rom and the reformations, it almost came to civil wars, as it can be expected if you change the entire culture of a species over night; so it is only logical some would rather work for... anyone, just not the Federation that corrupted their world. Followed their business partners - Orions, Nausicaans (both are clearly on good terms with the Ferengi Alliance, just like the Breen) to the KDF.
It would be extremly easy to add another playable species in that case - Ferengi are already there. They are just limited to be 'good Starfleet officers', while really all NPCs are working for the KDF species. *head desk*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18 Thank you
05-12-2010, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArievDhien
Hirogen. Sorry for being a bit smartass about that, I just watch Voyager and its all fresh.

Their relais stations were about 10.000 years old and build around tiny anomalies (1 cm black holes) that powered them and made such a large network possible. Janeway had the genius idea to destroy such a station, thus releasing the contained anomaly and turning it into a - gravity well. Which sucked in the attacking Hirogen and the station. And then pretty much fragged the entire network. So unless there was another extremly rare anomaly at the right time in the right place, the Hirogen did not get a chance to build a new network.

They also had no reason to extend their territory to Romulan space. The opposite was true. The Hirogen wanted to stop expanding, and give up their life as nomads. That is why they wanted the holo technology - to have enough prey in a smaller territory, and not fall apart as a culture. They had no reason to go anywhere after getting the technology, and even less to make any allies.
But - assuming they met a Klingon (not only Kurok was there, also a Klingon ship that still believed the Empire was at war with the Federation; a leftover ship from a deep space exploration mission), the Hirogen probably found more common traits than with the Romulans. Klingons enjoy hunting and collecting trophies, and they value strength and combat skills. The Hirogen also have a code of honor for their hunts.

With a bit imagination, the Hirogen had the scientific advantage (relais stations, but also armor, weapons, ships were quite advanced) the Klingons wanted; and the Klingons had what the Hirogen needed: a way to combine combat/hunting without losing their culture/territory. The Romulans had... umm, a supernova. Not too appealing to a species trying to get their own structure up and running again.

The Cardassians... I agree. This chaos is nothing but a sad attempt to satisfy fans by giving them a Dominion faction. I doubt anyone will really be happy with whatever comes out of it. The Cardassians had no token Fed member to really justify them as a Fed only species, the end of DS9 and following soft canon gives no option to keep them the way fans loved them - stubborn, arrogant, patriotic and secretive. The True Way is ultimately the continuation of what most people didn't like about Bajorans - extremists that lost the sense for reality and still fight a war that is long over.
Kira was always a perfect example how a species can not forgive in a picturebook utopia. She never got over her prejudice. She used 'I lost my family in the occupation' as a 'I'm always right' button. And the True Way now leads that ad absurdum - 'I survived the Dominion War, but hey, these Jem'Hadar are actually quite nice, I forgive them that they destroyed my world'.

More thoughts... Orions. Agreed on that, too. The KDF is allied with the Syndicate, not the entire world. For what reason? There is no canon saying the Syndicate suddenly got xenophobic. In many cases, the episodes dealing with the Syndicate didn't show a single Orion. It can be assumed they had a LOT members of other species. Members that had proven themselves worthy. So why suddenly kick them all out, reducing resources, possible infiltrators, income...? Just to have Orion in a Fed sector block, you could come to think.

Ferengi are very obviously portrayed the way they were before Rom became Nagus. The NPCs are all criminals, most notably in the company of Nausicaan pirates; Cryptic refers to gold farmers as 'Ferengi Smugglers' in a sticky... Another example of canon continuation gone wrong. Ferenginar is not a Fed member world. Soft canon references show Ferenginar did not happily embrace the new policy - many males opposed Rom and the reformations, it almost came to civil wars, as it can be expected if you change the entire culture of a species over night; so it is only logical some would rather work for... anyone, just not the Federation that corrupted their world. Followed their business partners - Orions, Nausicaans (both are clearly on good terms with the Ferengi Alliance, just like the Breen) to the KDF.
It would be extremly easy to add another playable species in that case - Ferengi are already there. They are just limited to be 'good Starfleet officers', while really all NPCs are working for the KDF species. *head desk*

I thank player like you for adding constutive way to fix the KDF and adressing issue not just pointing them out. I find it as useful as theaching a fed combat as getting most on these forums to solve issues through
debate. I ask all that have ideas on this to add thier input on the promblems that may need re working, but to also add soultion.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post



Yes, its very reasonable to allie with the people who commitet genozide on their homeplanet to get back what they had before that. Isnt that the message of Star Trek, forgivness and that? I see it, it is prophetic: the jews will become big buddys with the neonazis soon.

If the Cardassians want to regain power, an Alliance with the Klingons ist the most logic.


Please I get the point you are making but please keep this stikely star trek for everyones best intrest we dont need to strike up any debates on Human genozide.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
05-13-2010, 12:08 AM
The Hirogen are hunters, they would never join the Klingons. "The hunter does not lie with the prey" I believe is one of the terms they used on Voyager. It makes no sense for them to join the KDF... at all, EVER.

As for the Cardassians. The Cardassians hate the Klingons, for this: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Betreka_Nebula_Incident and this: http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon-Cardassian_War
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