Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > PvP Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
05-10-2010, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stetson7
First you I dont think you understand weapon mechanics in the game, or the engineer captian skills.
EPS III increases all power levels simultaniously as well as regen. nadion inversion allows you to use half your energy weapons power. that being said an engineer captian using EPS III, and Nadion can effectivly fire thier weapons with 30% more power for a full 30 seconds than a tactical officer can.
This is a good example as why there are so many bad pvpers in the game.

Someone shooting over, "hey you don't understand" when it seems like you don't realize the basic game mechanics behind weapons power. The weapons cap is 125 Energy regardless of how much power you have or are reducing.

Our escorts stay near 125 under their full burst with the proper loadout / skill set.

Also Nadion Inversion is on a TEN MINUTE COOLDOWN for FOURTY seconds.

Wow that's really going to help you with sustained DPS lol.

GO DOWN FIGHTING is only on a FIVE minute CD for SIXTY seconds with **50%** more damage at 100% hull.


Note: Some of the values change slightly depending of course on the skills you pick but you get the point.

Quote:
attack patter Alpha is good, but loses effectiveness after first strike. an engineer however can maintain his buff through the entire firing cycle.
You're primarily losing 25 weapons power (which I already said you can compensate for the most part with a proper build). 125 is CAP regardless if you have 200 weapons power overcapped.

Again Nadion Inversion is on a TEN MINUTE COOLDOWN and I remember previous testing from another thread showed this ability to be bugged or under performing regardless.

Quote:
Tactical is kings of DPS.
Fixed

Quote:
engineers have a higher sustained dps
No. This is only true if the escort has no idea how to maintain properly setup their ship or pop their buffs. lol

The extra +25 Weapons power (from EPS Transfer power to all) isn't an issue unless your Escort is using a really bad build / loadout. Just ask Ultime or Xaiver.


EDIT:
Quote:
all three are valid approaches to escourt/raptor combat ships it all depends on your play style and tactics used.
I wouldn't use the term valid but more like "different" with Engineering / Escort being the most difficult and least effective in most PvP situations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
05-10-2010, 02:12 PM
Ninja, I kind of have to agree that engineer in an escort is still pretty useful.

Is it as good as other Hybrids, I wouldn't know, just that I do not feel like I am underpowered compared to other escorts. I can go toe to toe with most of them and win 1v1. I become even more effective if I have a cruiser watching my back, but the same can be said about any escort.

I have had plenty of CnH matches where I was able to out-damage pure tacs in an escort, and still outheal engies in a cruiser. And I am usually the kind of person who tries to cap points, even at the expense of not pew-pewing for a few minutes.

Nadion Inversion IS useless because of its ridiculous cooldown. But EPSpT is still pretty useful against TSS or TES, not just on yourself, but on teammates as well. I don't use it for the extra power to weapons.

I think the viability of any hybrid, or any pure class for that matter, depends highly on the player flying it. Playing an Engineer in an Escort is not quite the same playstyle as a pure tac/escort. Basically it boils down to know your class.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
05-10-2010, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Nadion Inversion IS useless because of its ridiculous cooldown. But EPSpT is still pretty useful against TSS or TES, not just on yourself, but on teammates as well. I don't use it for the extra power to weapons.
This is a good key point and exactly what I was saying.

In an escort it's not going to be for extra power to weapons and Nadion Inversion is silly to even try and factor in the equation for overall sustained damage based on the facts of the ability.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Is it as good as other Hybrids, I wouldn't know,

I think the viability of any hybrid, or any pure class for that matter, depends highly on the player flying it. .
This is an example of a good player making making a less then spectacular hybrid viable.

I did say you can make a less then optimal spec viable with a good player.


DHC + CRF does go a long way regardless of the captain type as I previously stated.

That's one of the biggest complaints from some players in the game (it's burst damage alone)


Hell you and I both know that we can make our TIER 4 ships seem viable.

We've DONE it vs. T5 PREMADES lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
05-10-2010, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
Someone shooting over, "hey you don't understand" when it seems like you don't realize the basic game mechanics behind weapons power. The weapons cap is 125 Energy regardless of how much power you have or are reducing.
Actually, just a small correction there...the soft cap is 125 power indicated. You can have over 125 weapons power and the additional power is drained first. For example let's say you pop an EPtW I and now have 150 weapons power. If you fire four weapons in sequence the drain goes to -30 and thus 120 weapons power is the lowest you'll hit for not 95. Obviously when weapon cycling begins...or broadsiding in a cruiser...power drain will increase for the -10 power for each weapon when other weapons are also firing.

This "soft cap" mechanic is also demonstrated when combating TSS drains. With stacking of TSS you can be drained for more than -125 shield power. With full power to shields, EPtS, EPS Transfer, Batteries, etc you can produce a shield power rating above the soft cap of +125 and thus combat the drain. The soft cap does serve as the maximum multiplier for shield damage resistance unlike weapons power which continues to add the percentage modifier...hence some of the outrageous burst damage on Alpha Strikes along with the Tactical buff stacking of APA, APB, etc.

I still agree with your point of Tac/Escort being the highest DPS-capable combination with the Sci/Escort running second with the ability to strip all buffs (think RSP and hull resistance stacks here) from the target.

PS...yeah, you escort guys are lucky...Tier 4's look good while my Tier 4 cruiser is a space tugboat. :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
05-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Yep, I wasn't really disagreeing with anything you said, maybe just providing the exception that proves the rule?

Many people think they can just hop into an escort and make everything go boom. The harsh truth is, if your alpha strike fails or is countered, your survivability diminishes exponentially unless you have a team or some buddies to back you up.

Am I as good as a pure tac/esc? If in a 1v1 against an equally skilled player, he will probably out-dps me. Then again, I might have 5-10 times as much healing as he does, at the very least.

That's what Hybrid means. You combine two things to create something that is bigger than the sum of its parts. You give up something in exchange for something else.

For me, that means I give away 100-200k damage in a CnH map for 80-150k healing. Not quite a 1:1 trade there. But healing usually means I keep another player alive long enough for him to heal himself, to provide me with healing and support, to shoot at the enemy, and most importantly, another target for others to shoot at. And being used to flying a beached whale, I feel pretty naked when I fly my escort, so I like it when I'm not being shot at!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
05-10-2010, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BountyXP View Post
the soft cap is 125 power indicated. You can have over 125 weapons power and the additional power is drained first. For example let's say you pop an EPtW I and now have 150 weapons power. If you fire four weapons in sequence the drain goes to -30 and thus 120 weapons power is the lowest you'll hit for not 95. Obviously when weapon cycling begins...or broadsiding in a cruiser...power drain will increase for the -10 power for each weapon when other weapons are also firing.
I agree I posted a lot about this in the past (and a little in this thread) see my Tactical Cruiser vs. Engineer Cruiser energy posts or overcapping in this thread.

In one of the main energy threads you'll see Engineers getting their overcaps to 170 and 180 energy (although it will always show 125 unless you drain below that or your buffs wear off).

It's also nice to be aware of the variances in weapon cycle duration if weapon energy economy is important (see the turrets vs. beam array threads).

Here's a good list that shows explains how much weapons damage you gain per point of energy.

It's essentially 2% per 1 point.


Quote:
WEAPONS SYSTEM:
Power Level = % of affect
100 – 200
75 – 150
50 – 100
25 – 50

In other words = 2% difference (up or down) per point of Power above or below a setting of 50.

This only affects the power of the weapon when it leaves your ship, and not when it impacts the enemy. All energy weapons are also affected by the distance between yourself and your target, to varying degrees and will deal more damage the closer you are to your target. (cannons seem to be more affected than beams)

Your current available Weapon Energy is drained each time you fire an energy weapon. The amount of drain depends on the type of weapon you are firing, and the number of weapons firing simultaneously. Watch your power level in combat, and make sure you’re not over-draining your weapon power, as you will end up doing LESS damage over time if your Weapon Energy dips too low on a regular basis. If you regularly see your Weapon Power dipping well below the level it is set at, it may be a good idea to swap in a lower-power weapon type.

Weapon Power Drain amounts per shot:
Beam Arrays and all cannon types = drain 10 power (beams drain more frequently than cannons, allowing less time to regen)
Turrets = drain 8 power

You can offset the drain of Energy Weapons by investing in EPS Flow Regulator (Engineering Consoles). You can also use batteries or Emergency Power abilities to quickly recharge.
Quote:
my Tier 4 cruiser is a space tugboat.
Don't worry the refits are coming soon. Too bad the "All good things" Cruiser requires 5 recruits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ipigi
Yep, I wasn't really disagreeing with anything you said, maybe just providing the exception that proves the rule?
Yes we already know you make every ship combo look GOOD!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
05-10-2010, 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaboy View Post
Yes we already know you make every ship combo look GOOD!
Only because I'm so damn handsome!

Flying T4 ships is fun. But just like Bounty here, I wish I could refit my T4 to something a little bit better!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
05-10-2010, 07:54 PM
Was wondering what people think of Eng/Sciship hybrids. Ive been flying one, I think its pretty good all around and fairly survivable. Mostly in groups I seem to end up in healing role it seems to be pretty good at that role with 2 HE and 2 Sci teams. Anyways this is all well and good my problem is im really unhappy with the amount of damage its doing. Im thinking of going dual phasers in front and 3 turrets in back or giving up and going assault cruiser. So id be curious to see what people think of the eng/sci combo to begin with or if anyone has any specific thoughts on my issues.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
05-10-2010, 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manannan
Was wondering what people think of Eng/Sciship hybrids. Ive been flying one, I think its pretty good all around and fairly survivable. Mostly in groups I seem to end up in healing role it seems to be pretty good at that role with 2 HE and 2 Sci teams. Anyways this is all well and good my problem is im really unhappy with the amount of damage its doing. Im thinking of going dual phasers in front and 3 turrets in back or giving up and going assault cruiser. So id be curious to see what people think of the eng/sci combo to begin with or if anyone has any specific thoughts on my issues.
I ran an engi/sci build for a while, and its probably one of my fav hybrids. I used the dual HE and Sci Team combo, and set the ship up for Energy Syphon.... combined with EPS Transfer everything was 100+ Power.

For weap'n setups, I found the recon sci to be particularly effective as a torp boat... I had a Dual Beam up front, with a Quantum Launcher and a Tri Cobalt. In the Back was 2 Beam arrays and a Quantum. My standard tactic was Energy Syphon, TSS and HY2 at range, then evasive+ Brace for Impact (and depending on my mood, Ramming Speed) and the Tri Cobalt... if timed right (or lucky) you get the quantums and the tri cobalt all hitting at the same time, and on an unshielded quadrant... The whole setup was rather effective, and I usually had equal heals to DMG and frequently was in the top 3 for DPS (and a few times as the top DPS and Heals)

For me, this was a rather fun set up, and something I will probably revisit...as for now, I am trying my hand at all out healing and support in a Cruiser
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
05-10-2010, 09:51 PM
So I guess those of us that like the hybrid builds should just leave the game because somewhere along the line this game became Premade PvP online where individuality is lost if you want to be an Elite PvPer. The arrogance that this thread smacks of is one reason why the PvP queues keep getting sparser and sparser. Now I know why I stopped PvPing after the last patch. DOB and Section 31 try to guise their arrogance in helping and providing information when in reality they are nothing more than the Borg of this game. "To be PvP gods follow our rules, resistance is futile." The funny thing is I have been on the receiving end of some of your lopsided victories, I had to endure some of ridicule from your fleet members, which you guys profess doesn't happen. The one thing I see in the Cap and holds where one or two of your ships strut around is they get totally owned by the very hybrids you put down. The only reason I can see you trying to get everyone to come to your side of enlightenment is to stroke your egos and probably because you are about to reveal a new FOTM that will put everyone that stacks TS(X) at another disadvantage because you and your fleet get off thinking you have an advantage over everyone else and you are not afraid to flaunt it.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:01 AM.